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Who thinks $5K speaker cable really better than generic 14AWG cable?

I recently ordered high end speaker, power amp, and preamp to be installed in couple more weeks. So the next search are interconnect and speaker cable. After challenging the dealer and 3 of my so called audiophile friends, I think the only reason I would buy expensive cable is for its appearance to match with the high end gears but not for sound performance. I personally found out that $5K cable vs $10 cable are no difference, at least not to our ears. Prior to this, I was totally believe that cable makes a difference but not after this and reading few articles online.

Here is how I found out.

After the purchase of my system, I went to another dealer to ask for cable opinion (because the original dealer doesn't carry the brand I want) and once I told him my gears, he suggested me the high end expensive cable ranging from $5 - 10K pair, depending on length. He also suggested the minimum length must be 8-12ft. If longer than 12ft, I should upgrade to even more expensive series. So I challenged him that if he can show me the difference, I would purchase all 7 AQ Redwood cables from him.

It's a blind test and I would connect 3 different cables - 1 is the Audioquest Redwood, 1 is Cardas Audio Clear, and 1 my own generic 14AWG about 7ft. Same gears, same source, same song..... he started saying the first cable sound much better, wide, deep, bla...bla...bla......and second is decently good...bla...bla...bla.. and the last one sounded crappy and bla...bla...bla... BUT THE REALITY, I NEVER CHANGED THE CABLE, its the same 14AWG cable. I didn't disclosed and move on to second test. I told him I connected audioquest redwood but actually 14AWG and he started to praise the sound quality and next one I am connected the 14awg but actually is Redwood and he started to give negative comment. WOW!!!! Just blew me right off.

I did the same test with 3 of my audiophile friends and they all have difference inputs but no one really got it right. Especially the part where I use same generic 14awg cable and they all start to give different feedback!!!

SO WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK? OR I AM THE LAST PERSON TO FIND OUT THAT EXPENSIVE CABLE JUST A RIP OFF?
sautan904
dynaquest4's avatar
dynaquest4
368 posts
 
kn: Thanks for the polite, well written explanation of how you view the efficacy of "expensive" audio cables.  I should have responded sooner but have been tied up with a whole list of distractions.

I think my overall point of view is that I've personally never noticed ANY significant difference in cables (once basic length/impedance is met). Yes, I currently use some Kimber/Wireworld products that did nothing that I could detect.  You'd have to agree that any "difference" cabling can make (good or bad) is going to be very subtle.  I don't know anybody who would agree that something "jaw-dropping" (a favorite here) is a subtle effect.

I also have trouble with this: The ONLY people who recommend/praise the positive effect of exotic (high priced) cables are those that manufacture, distribute, retail, install, review for compensation or, lastly, have purchased these products.  And the ONLY measure of efficacy is extremely subjective - one's perception of what is being heard.

People spend crazy amounts on lots of stuff...but a Rolex tells time well and makes a statement...a Bucati goes really fast while turning heads and definitely makes a statement.  Expensive cables, wires, ICs, PCs, USB/Ethernet cables and other digital connects, IMO, do nothing beyond what similar basic, good quality, inexpensive (eg: Monoprice) products do.  

Not trying to change anyone's mind...just pointing out scientific reality as I see it.
dchang1981
65 posts
 
for people that experience massive changes with cable changes, I'd like to do an experiment where i switch out the cables secretly to something far more modest and see if they notice.
ctsooner's avatar
ctsooner
2,104 posts
 
So you contradict yourself with your own statement of:

' And the ONLY measure of efficacy is extremely subjective - one's perception of what is being heard.'

Yes, perception. I use the term jaw dropping, because in my system that's what I hear as well as others in the house who had no clue that I installed said cables.  Also, I have no skin in the game and honestly, I paid more for my pair of Niagara that I'm about to list for sale.

You don't hear any difference and that's fine.  Let me know when you have heard MY system so you can make that statement as fact please. ha.

Yes, you point out scientific reality.  Have you measure the cables I'm personally using?  I know you haven't.  Maybe there aren't measurements available yet that show the differences. I personally don't know, nor do I care as I trust my ears.  Some of the differences in cables deals with how they shield interferrences, so how can you make a statement about scientific reality saying you can't hear a difference.  The reality is that over the years we've been able to take measurements that we couldn't in the past.  

I used to work in the gold industry selling product to the dental and jewelry industry.  The metallurgist was also a budding audiophile and we used to talk all the time about cable properties  and how it affects sound.  We discussed grain boundaries and grain size etc..  There are many differences in the metallurgy of these high end cables. Just because some folks who claim to be scientists come on threads like this and post as though their feelings are supported by science and therefore are the best opinion, are not correct as many of these designs are based on science and measurable.  That is a fact.

I'll just wait for your response telling me that your position is correct.  :)
dynaquest4's avatar
dynaquest4
368 posts
 
Ctsooner: read your post and, unfortunately, find noting there that merits further response from me.  Sorry.
nonoise's avatar
nonoise
4,382 posts
 
I don't get it. To claim "scientific reality" as a point of view, and then state that there wasn't a "significant difference" belies the point being made.

Scientific reality would reveal the slightest of differences, and a difference is just that, a difference. To move on from that juncture, what constitutes slight to someone could be significant to someone else, especially to audiophiles who value such differences.

For me, once I've heard better, it's very hard to go back. It's in the very nature of audiophiles to want better, inch by inch if necessary. This is, after all, a ground game, and who wants to give up ground because someone else says the difference isn't worth it?

I think we're beyond the OP's value judgement argument and have progressed to simply some stating that small differences aren't worth it and I say that is simply untrue.

All the best,
Nonoise
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