How do you determine how much to spend on speakers

Another thought. All the posts above are about different points of view. Do you remember the song that went, "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife . . . So from my personal point of view, get an ugly girl to marry you." The audiophile equivalent of an ugly girl is a minisystem from the Good Guys. Go buy a Denon M30 or the Yamaha Pianocraft, and forget about all this nonsense.

Sean and Whatjd: I agree completely with your comments. It is perfect general advice. But a question remains. What exactly is a "balanced" and "compatable" system? I mean what exactly do you buy? How do you divide the pie. Not trying to push a point, just very interested in your opinion.

By the way Whatjd, Your advise is very Greek - moderation and balance in all things. I love the ancient greeks and I think part of the reason they continually sought moderation is that they lived in such excess. Sounds like the way most of us approach audio.

Sincerely, I remain

Great question and wonderful answers. I'd like to reinforce the earlier post suggesting you consider this system within your future plans. Getting everything balanced now means you have to replace everything later to achieve a new balance (I'm overstating a bit, but ...). So you may want to "overspend" on something now -- if so, I would argue that the speakers are a good thing to do this with. I base this on the need to audition speakers in your room if at all possible -- more on this later.

A lot depends on the deals you can get. I would strongly suggest that you research prior threads and buy as much used as possible (If you have already been working with a dealer, by all means purchase from him or her). Look for those things which can be auditioned -- this is harder to do with speakers, so I would again suggest you get something good here right away (good depends on your room and your taste so please audition speakers heavily -- probably from a local dealer unless you've already heard something you love).

Bottom line:
1) You really should try to audition speakers like crazy at home (which means you may have to buy from a dealer at or near cost, so do it right since you will be selling at a loss later).
2) Find the best supporting equipment you can on a used basis (selling these later will not cost you as much). Research equipment that matches well with your speaker and buy it used.
3) So $speakers =$rest of heavily discounted system. This changes if you can audition speakers that are being sold at a discount. I believe all the threads above covered the situation where the equipment is all at full price (or at an equal discount).

I hope this isn't too confusing. Lot's of strategies -- but please consider your auditioning needs, your ability to get discounts and your future plans. Happy hunting!

Ultrakaz is right on in his percentages. Look at it this way: how close can you get to the state of the art with non-SOTA priced components?

In cables, even most generic wires will get you indistiguishably close to 100% of ideal (when considering the sound only). Not everyone agrees ;-)

In a digital front end, a half-kilobuck CD player should get you 90%+++ of anything else on the market. GARBAGE out??? No way!

For amplification, a good integrated (assuming enough power)gets you another 90%+ of SOTA without spending more than $1500 or so.

Speakers - there's the hard part, and hence where most of the budget should go. It's all personal taste, and listening.

Specifcially for my $5K, I'd go with something like:
Dunlavy SM-1 (now called the SC-IIa, BTW) ~$2500 w/stands
REL Q-150e subwoofer $1100
Rotel 961 CD player $500
Marantz PM-17sa $900 (being closed out)
Wires ~$200 or less

Which would make for a heck of a near-full-range system. Of course, discounting and/or used brings the prices down and many very good alternatives exist. Say:

Sub: ACI Titan II; REL Q201e or Strata III (~$1500)
CD: Rotel 971, Arcam CD-72, many $300 DVD players (you can add a $300 MSB LinkDAC)
Amp: used Bryston B-60, Musical Fidelity A3, Simaudio 5080, Creek 5350se, Rotel 1070, Arcam A85, Parasound pre/power, etc., etc., etc. No reason not to buy used, and you could always just go with a power amp like the Bryston 3BST if you don't need to switch sources.

Good luck!

I can echo the rec from Ozfly. Unless you can hear speakers from a friend's house, you almost have to buy the suckers at MSRP from a hi-end store. Personally, I would take my "sweet 'ole" time and audition everything he has, then ask him to get some models he deals from, but doesn't have in stock. (e.g., higher end model of a lower end model on display (that you like), or vice-versa.) A since you spent so much of the dealer's valuable ($$$) time, you should extend the courtesy of buying those speakers at or near full MSRP (retail).

Shipping or buying used speakers is a major PITA. I'd just assume heavily audition and buy a speaker I love at MSRP, then hunt and peck repeated buying and selling used speakers I have not heard. Considering depriciation and shipping costs, you might actually end up ahead by going thru a dealer. YMMV.

And electronics, by all means buy used. DACs, preamps, amps, wires, etc al. are all prefectly good used (more so than used speakers) and you can usualy sell something used for near the same price you bought it used - on most things. In that case, you can think of the shipping cost as the "audition fee." :-) And it works out nicely since you are WAY more likely to frequently swap out electronics, that speakers. The whole matching and "synergy" thing. ;-)