Devor - KEF - Vienna Acoustic – Wilson?

Twoleftears > I first heard the Liszt's driven by the solid-state 60W integrated from Ayre. And they sounded great. They sounded better, needless to say, when we moved up to the more powerful and much more expensive AX-5.

Blindjim > interesting. The Cronus Magnum II never did push the Listz though, did they?


pokey77 > Go to the thread "Just retired and want to get back to vinyl listening"

blindjim > Super! Thanks much. I will try.
Thanks also for the update on room size and so forth I missed earlier. Many great thoughts there. Yes indeed. It is so true about gear and synergy… setup… matching gear and matching all that to a room… and cleaning up power so it does not adversely affect the audio by bleaching it...

I look as said here and nearly always when I post, the sound of what ever put together rig ahs to grab me quickly. Or soon. I don’t care if the speakers are gang busting immagers or not. Not just then. Its all about timber, and organics. Naturalness. Reality. One always knows it when one hears it. If there’s balance in the strike or leading edges and the decays too I’m definitely interested. But the tone or color of the instrument has to be alluring.

Then I’ll start trying to disassemble the outfit accounting for that or this as to its influence on the sound.

Maybe it is from decaying sight. Perhaps its because I was a musician for a pretty good while. Who knows and who really cares. The sound does have to alert me some way, some how for me to go further with it all.

I’ve heard great components individually of great reputations, compiled . together with a life sucking power line conditioner and not been impressed one iota. Albeit, in spite of some really soul sucking pieces, been able to forgive the overall and pursue the one or two items in the array that did matter. In fact bought them thereafter right off these pages. Piece by piece. Johnny Cash style.


It does seem however to ALWAYS come down to this…. Even great speakers will never do their best presentation until what is in front of them gets elevated significantly. It has ALWAYS followed too that if the upstream products are spot on performers already, many less than ultra expensive speakers will sound outstanding. Provided they are at least ‘honest’ and cohesive or coherent in the bandwidth..

Hence my philosophy for spending more on power and front ends, than on speakers… 90% of the time.


Teventoney > I like the Gibbon X very much
    > I Would need to find something that really floors me to move off one of those 3 brands -- I want to keep speakers less than 14-15K

Blindjim > I would be tremendously grateful for your input on the X’s and what was used to drive them in what size room.

After your audition, if you would not mind posting those thoughts I’d sure appreciate it.

I had the impression prior to reading your thoughts here that the Gib X’s were the top Devore product. True it is not as sensitive as the 96s looking at the spec sheets..

I saw a used pr of Gibbons listed recently. Harbeths and AE too.

I feel your pain on the which ‘INT” to get as well. Nice ones are sure not inexpensive. You are absolutely correct on which amp to what spkr too. Be true to yourself there. It will make you happy or ready to sell it soon. With the Devore or Audio notes, I’d be inclined to really go off on some smoking SET amps.

I don’t know how ‘polite’ or easy sounding Harbeths are though I suspect an INT with tubes somewhere should work if there is 150 wpc or more, for moderate sized rooms. Less in smaller, more in larger ones.

As for ‘stretching’ the buying dollar, if it were me, I’d take cash if possible. Cash has no hidden fees like plastic, bank transfers or PayPal. RWV

@blindjim 

Jim, totally agree with you on top notch electronics enabling average speakers to sound "outstanding". I've heard it a few times and have realized that to short change yourself on quality components just short changes you on sound.

@steventoney

Thanks for coming in and providing your insight. Much appreciated. Looking forward to hearing more about the Gibbon Xs.

@steventoney
Yes indeed. Thanks very much for any and all feedback on either harbeth or devore speakers. Especially the Harbeth 30, 40, and Gibbon X and what amp pushes them in how big a room.


@pokey77
I tagged into that thread you mentioned. Thanks much.
Reading thru it I’m surprised no one interjected the notion of a Prima Luna INT as an option. The latest ver I read about says it is remarkably flexible with tube rolling. Thought it had a phono section too. $5k new. ## the distributor is out there on the left coast too in upscale audio.

Another thing took me while reading thru the posts there, analog. Watching youtube vids of mike Fremer on TTs got my attention. The associated ancillary gear needed for TTs puts me back off. Fremere’s input and setup videos were very interesting at any event.

It is undeniable fact. Without an exemplary well heeled signal speakers just don’t matter how great they are. Otherwise, we would be buying high dollar speakers and using androids and iPhones to run them or using any turntable and something like a Bose radio. Or Sony boom box.

It disturbs me too the speaker first club saying the best place is to start there always.

Nearly anything in the MSRP $5 to $8K range especially the popular sorts should be a fine enough starting place. If used, all the better. maybe. They should be decent enough especially in the mids and upper ends to hear the upstream changes or additions when where ever applied!

Then sell them when you’re ready for bigger and or better. Simple.

Then you have the amp you like a lot and just tote it along to audition speakers if home listening is out of the equation and the shop has nothing remotely similar to your’s..

Another reason for speakers being the final destination is speaker tech. it moves nearly as quickly as does digital tech. four to five years out your units are bordering being outdated. Although it doesn’t mean ‘time to buy the latest greatest” either.

There is an arguable trap we lay for ourselves with supposed ‘keeper’ speakers. When or if, its time to sell them.

Do ‘em like cars? Or do ‘em like schooters? Sell em off every two years or so, or keep ‘em regardless.

Both perspectives cost money. Sadly, quite often, one costs much more.

It appears we never really own our gear, we simply rent or lease it.

Unless of course it is tube amps. In that game we only have to rent the tubes.

@blindjim 

Hey Jim,
I've heard several Prima Luna integrateds: the Prologue Classic and the Dialogue Premium HP. Both are quite good. Check out this thread for tons of comments. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/considering-switching-from-audio-research-to-primaluna-troube...

Enjoy reading all the comments but look for Kevin's comments (upscaleaudio). As you'll notice from reading the thread, I was at this shoot out. There were three integrateds in the shootout:  the Prologue Classic, Dialogue Premium HP, and an Audio Research Vsi75. In a blind test, I chose the  Dialogue Premium HP with the ARC a very close second. In fact, they all three sounded much more similar than they did different. The three integrateds were played through Sopra 2s and it was the first time that I've heard that speaker sound good. If you have any questions, LMK.

pokey77 > The three integrateds were played through Sopra 2s and it was the first time that I've heard that speaker sound good.

Blindjim > tubes usually make so so sounding speakers sound far better. Usually. If they can push them. (see my latest thread on mega watt amp & low imp spkrs what’s this all about and why). The current conspiracy to eradicate demonstrably, lower powered amps of any kind by speaker makers is seeing to that.

During the shoot out, did Kevin ever stop talking? Back in ’05 to ’07 as I was getting rid of my biases or just setting them aside for a bit, and looking into tubes I called upscale for info on tubes. Got to talk… er, listen to KD about them. Albert Von S was the same way. They talk. You listen. Maybe they will answer your Q. maybe not. However, it was usually interesting, but frustrating at the same time. Lol

I’ve listend to Deal’s youtube vids on a few things, mostly PL. youtube is a new venue IMO for gathering info from the ‘horse’s mouth’ as you get to hear designers and equipment makers , forum promoters, reviewers, etc. I like nearly all I’ve seen so far. The PSA input is very cool.

I suppose an item which concerns me on this amp & speaker stalk, is control of the bottom end on what ever speaker I like in all other respects. I’m possibly over emphasizing this as I feel adept control of the drivers a key to immediacy and realism.

That said, it worries me to keep 100wpc tube amps or less on the top part of the short list as I look at speakers. Sure, even substantially less watts will make most speakers produce noise. At some level. Some will sound decent too. A few given better matching will sound very very good. Although, until the power amp can fully embrace the speaker satisfying its needs fully, the best that speaker has to offer isn’t gonna be heard…. IMHO.

Stanley turrentine has a track which leads by a bass drum softly tapping to the beat. With 93db 6 – 8ohm units and a BAT 250wpc amp it was easy to hear this intro. With 60wpc EL34 monos on the same speakers it was invisible.

Bob james group Fourplay > Heartfelt > café l’amore, a woman whispers very softly as the percussion sets the mood. She speaks only a few words. ‘Fire’ is distinguishable. After that the words are less intelligible with less power.

Subtle meaningless cues of course, but it points out my inference for revealing more sonics with better control or more power. Either scenario tube plus SS amp or tubes throughout was were equally enjoyable.

I simply found this facet eye opening.

Best case scenario? Have two power plants available. . others may say have two entirely different rigs. I doubt I want to get that deep this go ‘round.

For me, ARC is not an option just as Van der’s are not.

Sure would hate to lean on a desire and ignore the truth being dealt, not by the amp but by the speakers actual needs.

Ten trillion speakers s out there and its fascinating how quickly that herd is culled when preffs and power needs and room size, and esthetics and budget come into the mix, ain’t it? Sheesh. still more than curious as to what might be done as a prelude to

erecting the main rig by getting in an EL34 amp (40 - ??wpc) PL? and a pr of 2 way monitors, Andrew Jones? All of modest heritages. Its why I vie PL as a sincere option. Its versatility with rolling tube types alone would be very educational. Maybe fun too. My EGGO says the office needs its own decent outfit.

What’s the real kicker here? That fella in the INT thread you sent me to, listened to the Gibbon X in False church VA. I stayed there when I had to go to D.C. back in April. I never even considered that area for auditioning gear. Lol. Amazing. It was a quick in and out legal affair anyhow. My mind wasn’t in the right place. But now I know. DC is very ‘spensive. Whoa.