2. tech-talk
  3. 131262-68132

Why don't amplifier Companies use high end fuses?

My equipment - Raven Integrated Reflection MK2 tube amp 58wpc. / Lumin A-1 DAC Streamer / Synology NAS / Isotex Aquarius Power Conditioner / Furutech Rhodium Plug / Sonus Faber Amati Homage Tradition speakers.  

I have read thousands of comments on upgraded fuses improving the performance of sound.  I am very open minded but not sold either way.  So, the question I have is....if fuses were so important, than why don't Amplifier companies all install them as OEM equipment?  To me, if they are as good as people say, that would provide companies who use them a competitive advantage?  

Every High End Audio store I go to in Phoenix have told me it does not make a difference and is a waste of money.  For the record, I have fuses purchased at an automotive store for under $10 and I think my sound is awesome.  The Company that built my amp tested the Synergistic Fuses and he emphatically said there was no difference.  

If I were to try a fuse for fun, given my equipment, what would your recommendation be to try?  
willgolf
nonoise's avatar
nonoise
4,382 posts
 
@hifiman5 
Yes, I was aware of that but that argument (which has it's own fallacies) usually comes with it's partner: rotating the fuse.

As to the claim that some microscopic piece of junk will impact a change of sound in a place where they also claim it's impossible to have a change of sound gives me pause. It's a prefect example of "whataboutism".

If that is so, then why don't I hear the same level of improvement when taking out and reinserting speaker cables and interconnects? I do hear a very slight improvement when I clean them but it is in no way of the level of improvement heard when dealing with aftermarket fuses. 

I appreciate the clarification though. 👍

All the best,
Nonoise
mapman's avatar
mapman
15,679 posts
 
Hifiman yes that is often the case and I can attest to the fact that it can make things sound better having encountered it many times working on customer gear. In fact. When a customer brought an amp in for service complaining about bad sound, we always first tried to reset the fuse before sending the unit out for repair. In many cases doing that resolved the issue and proved that it can happen.

We also experimented with replacing fast blow fuses with slo blo and found that could make a difference too. Of course we never actually left a slo blo in when a fast blo was required.


These were all standard issue fuses commonly used in hifi gear of the day.   Nothing fancy required. 


nonoise's avatar
nonoise
4,382 posts
 
Do you think it was due to the cheap tin alloy of the end caps in the standard fuses you encountered? Also, what grade of fuse holder?

The ones in my Marantz Reference series gear are high quality silver plated and so are the aftermarket fuses I use and I've never encountered such a thing. I guess you get what you pay for.

All the best,
Nonoise
almarg's avatar
almarg
8,673 posts
 
FWIW, with the three exceptions cited below, as far as I can recall not a single member who has reported audibly significant direction-related fuse effects has ever stated that he has done either one of the following:

1)Reversed and re-reversed the direction of the fuse multiple times, to verify that the perceived differences were repeatable.

2)Experimented with fuse rotation, to determine if rotation could achieve results comparable to the alleged directional effects.

The exceptions:

1)Ralph (Atmasphere), who has stated that he has experimentally verified that no. 2 above can be audibly significant, at least in the case of power amplifiers.

2)A member by the name of SGordon1, who reported in the Red Fuse thread on 5-3-2016 that rotational effects were audibly significant in his power amp, and consequently he "encourages everyone to experiment with fuse rotation!"

3)On that same date in the Red Fuse thread Oregonpapa stated as follows:
Warren Gehl is the chief listener at Audio Research. There isn’t a piece of equipment, repair or new, that leaves the factory until its signed off by Warren. He not only takes the time to orient the fuses’ direction, but also the proper rotational position to ensure that the equipment will sound its best when it arrives at the customer’s home.
Regards,
-- Al

nonoise's avatar
nonoise
4,382 posts
 
As for:
1) I have tried it twice with my first set of aftermarket fuses and did not feel the need to do it multiple times. The first time I did it seemed to be enough for me but after the long and contentious posts, I tried it again.
Same results. I know what I hear. With my second set of aftermarket fuses, I quickly ascertained the correct direction by reversing them only once. No need to do anything further. I owe no one here a rigorous set of attempts to justify anything once I hear a clear and definite distinction.

2) I tried to rotate the fuses but they are held tightly in place and are difficult to do so. I've stated this in another thread. Once again, how does rotating a circle in a semi fixed holder change the amount of surface contact? I smell a red herring.

3) As for Warren Gehl, good for him. He knows that fuse direction is important but I question his reasons for rotating them.

All the best,
Nonoise
More to discover