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HELP PLEASE - VPI Classic Signature 3D Arm or Dr. Feickert Woodpecker Jelco Arm

Need some help guys from the well informed analog folks.

VPI Classic Signature w/3D arm - New Open Box  - Soundsmith Carman MKII Cart is brand new

or

Dr. Feickert Woodpecker Jelco arm static demo - Dynavector 20x2 Cart is brand new

Both tables are either static demo’s or open box and mint and from reputable dealers the carts are brand new and will be mounted for me. 

Both are around $4,400 price all in. 

I’m open to other options but landed on these two for best for the price I thought and these are the carts for this price target that each dealer can offer. Trying to not make things too crazy option wise but I always get great info from you guys so please share any and all thoughts. What one would you get? Either? 

Here in my situation:


I just finished up a full system re-fit with some tweaking here and there still to do but I am extremely happy with the sound I’m getting today from my new to me system.

Best I’ve personally ever had. I’m pretty psyched - so psyched I want to add a turntable and a decent / competent but reasonable priced cart to startout and then if needed I can upgrade later.

Will these tables have a legit chance to be at least as good as my Digital do you think?

Could they sound better or no chance? Everyone says vinyl is better when using decent enough equipment so I’ll list the rest of my rig below to get your opinions.

Would love some feedback / ideas / thought recommendations and help. I’m a digital guy and want to give vinyl and honest to goodness try.

For my phonostage I just purchased the dual mono Phono board modules for my
Mark Levinson No.326s linestage so it’s now a full function Preamp with built in phonostage as well which was done at a reasonable cost which is great! 

Here is some other info that may be relevant. Thanks so much for the help!

** Back Ground info**

** Room is ** 
14 x 24 w/Cathedral Ceilings - 16 Foot a peak

** Music likes **
Assorted Music but no metal or loud hard rock anymore really - not much Large Scale classical either but everything else. I listen just loud enough to sound its best but not a loud listener. I enjoy normal levels. 

** Likes / Priorities **
Transparency - Delicacy - Linear - High resolution - microscope but not sterile not etched or lifeless -some natural warmth and life to the music is key  but love that see through transparency and love precise soundstage - remove as many layers without being clinical - tight bass - hate flab - but don’t need worlds greatest slam but love speed and accurate bass while being musical.

** Perspective **
I’m only a couple months into this new system and I was struggling to get the right Preamp and tried a half dozen or so searching for the right balance and the one that could bring my new system together like only the perfect matching preamp can do. Each system is different so really it must be heard to know it’s what you want. I believe in the Preamp and knew If I could find the right match it would change everything. Well that was the hope.

To make a long story longer the Mark Levinson No.326s preamp did this and more. I was hedging my expectations based on the disappointments of the others I tried and failed but the No. 326s nailed it and honestly it an incredible Preamp and then some. I was so happy I decided to upgrade and add the built in phonostage option and here we are :) 

System:
https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/5160

- Magico S5 Loudspeakers 
- Pass Labs X350.5 Amplifier
- Mark Levinson No.326s Preamp/phonostage
- Bricasti M1 Special Edition DAC
- PS Audio P10 Power Plant 
- Kubala-Sosna Emotion SC’s
- Nordost/Cardas IC’s 
- Assorted PC's Verastarr/Cardas

- Digital PC based front end that I have been tweaking and evolving:
- Sonore microRendu 1.4
- Full Suite of UpTone Audio Gear
(2) x LPS-1 Ultra Capacitor PS
JS-2 Linear Power Supply
(2) Regens - ISO/Amber
- (8) Canare / Oyide DC cables 
- (2) Breeze Audio 12v LPS
- Tellurium Q Black Diamond Reference USB cable
- Curious Regen Link USB Cable.

This Digital Front End beat out: Lumin, Antipodes, Naim and Auralic servers. It needs everything to work so well but man does it work great. My hope is that a turntable can complete and wish some luck I end up liking it better. That’s why I’m asking for help. I want to put my best vinyl foot forward for the budget it listed as I already own the Phonostage so my budget is for table, arm and cart. 

Really appreciate any help you can provide! I know this is kind of long but wanted you guys to know where I’m coming from! If you would like more info please let me know - all comments and feedback are most welcome and deeply appreciated :)








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dgarretson
2,394 posts
 

Several excellent ideas above. At the $4k level you have many good choices. After decades with an evolving VPI TNT and a bespoke Mark Kelly speed controller, I’m more impressed with vintage direct drive tables like Luxman PD-444 and Kenwood L07D, both of which are within your range. Neither requires replinthing, though both benefit from better footers and good siting. For an innovative belt drive, check out Fern & Roby’s factory-direct top model. It uses the same Hurst motor as VPI, but with a more sophisticated closed-loop speed controller that compensates for variations in belt tension and wear. It can be had with F&R’s own tonearm, or an optional Schroeder arm at a higher price. I have a source for a Feickert Woodpecker at a cheaper price than you mention. PM if that is of interest. That’s also a great choice.

As we have similar digital set-ups that include Ethernet-to-USB endpoints with USB conditioning and linear DC power supplies, I have an idea of your performance level with digital. My MicroRendu was lately replaced with top SOtM pieces and a custom EN hub, all synchronized to a 10mHz master clock and powered by a Hynes SR7 master power supply. Sounds great, but still not quite as satisfying as my vinyl rig(distortions and all, with due respect to Raul!) You’re moving in an interesting direction with vinyl, provided that you’re willing to put time and effort into optimal setup. I’m not sure that the Levinson integrated phono preamp will get you there, but worth a try.

mmakshak
583 posts
 
I just want to respond to Raul.  I agree that digital is getting better, but don't fall for the "it's more accurate" argument.  One way to determine is whether or not you are actually listening to the music, or are you thinking about something else, or what song to play next.  If you are, something is missing.  That something, although it may not be measurable, makes digital less accurate in that way.
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ninetynine
111 posts
 
I had the 1point VPI in the hand at a friendly dealer and knew why i hate this bobbleheads. If one, then a Schröder.
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rauliruegas
9,123 posts
 
Dear @fsmithjack :  Even the S5II needs a pair of self powered subwoofers connected in a true stereo fashion.. As a fact all passive loudspeakers needs those subwoofers, it's a " sin equa non " condition in any pasive audio system. It does not matters if name is Magico or Wilson or whatever and even it does not matters what the people of Magico could think about.

You are more or less satisfied with your digital alternative, well you can't even imagine the whole improvement you will have with the subs connected in the rigth way.  I'm not talking here to add " bum bum bum " to the listening experience it's more deeper and " new " experience where the primary target is not what subwoofers does but what those Magico will does ! !

Not only your Pass amplifier can't handle in precise way those Magico speakers in the bass range as a fact no other amp can do it because the amps were not designed to fulfill the very specific needs of the Magico speakers. Amps are " universal " when in powered subs the amps were designed in specific for the woofers needs and this makes a huge differences in the quality bass range performance but more important what makes in the Magico " new " frequency range that will goes from the upper bass range to  50 khz.

Here you can read something about:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/do-you-think-you-need-a-subwoofer/post?postid=310058#310058  

After  fine tunning your room/system with the powered subwoofers your not only your digital will shines but your analog rig will does too ! ! 


Btw, @dgarretson you know the high respect I have for you and I'm not in " total " disagreement with you but think on this: for many years our brain/body was and is accustomed to the analog experiences and if we suddenly swicht to digital our brain/body answer will be exactly like you said.
What happens if for 4-6 months in a row you listen only to the digital alternative and don't was exposed to the analog one?, well that when you listening again to analog you will be totally aware and in a very precise way will detect not only those very high LP distortions but that at the end will not so easy to live with when you know for sure that with digital you stay truer to the recording but we have to make that time test.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
fsmithjack's avatar
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fsmithjack OP
605 posts
 
I don’t disagree on the greatness of subs. I sold mine when in the process of flipping my entire system to build to roll out my system refit - my current system. I had a couple of Sumiko S.9’s and although not great Subs they were decent and I really appreciated what they added. I loved how the REL Onspeaker hook up was smooth and easy to set up but with Pass amps the Onspeaker hooked to the ground on the speaker wire caused problems. Pass has added an extra ground on back of amps to handle this but mine did not have one so I would have had to have made DIY cable and soldered the negative leg of the Onspeaker sub wire into a Interconnect RCA and grounded though the RCA so I just moved my Subs. I may add a pair in future but Pass amps without the added ground plugs does not play well with REL type SpeakerOn Cables. 
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