Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD


Hi All.

Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.

I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.

Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?

All opinions welcome.

And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.

Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
mattnshilp
Also totally agree with you on the Isoacoutics stuff, just amazing for the money. 

Did an initial test of three pucks at $60 for the entire set vs a set of the older Stillpoints which were over $300 and we thought the Isoacoustics were just as good if not better.

We were telling people about these findings months ago. 

The pucks under a set of bookshelf speakers too a set of ATC and Elac to another level.

It amazes us how some people on these forums think vibration isolation doesn't or can't make a difference on anything other than a turntable. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
Ok. Here’s my vibration treatment theory. It’s deducted from observation, logic, quit a bit of research (I have an undergraduate degree in physics) and what I have heard:

Symposium posts on its web site that it is imperative for their shelf system to properly function to have a high transmission efficiency connection between the components chassis and the shelf. This is to allow the system to simultaneously isolate from outside while draining vibratory energy from the component. Symposium relies on foam in the shelf, not rubber. And then wants no rubber elsewhere because it NEEDS to get the energy to the foam to dissipate it. Makes sense. It's a total system design. Use metal footers of some kind, bearing footer devices, or thick solid metal discs to couple the chassis to the shelf so it can do its job. It makes sense. I now realize that THIS is how Critical Mass works as well; and this is why Critical mass recommends you just put the equipment directly on the shelf or use their simple cone footer to couple the chassis to the shelf. Same exact concept. The magic is in the shelf so get ALL the vibrations to the shelf to do its job.

HRS and IsoAcoustics rely on rubber to dissipate the energy. But IsoAcoustics counts of the footers doing it alone. HRS has developed their own system integrated rubber in their footers and their shelves to dissipate the vibrational energy. I think that with rubber there is less thermal distribution. And that with too much rubber it actually seals the vibrational energy in the component as opposed to allowing it to come out and dissipate.

I think that you either should use the HRS footers alone or IsoAcoustics footers alone, unless external vibration is a bigger problem then internal vibration. I think the HRS shelf is a brick wall and doesn't allow vibrational energy IN or OUT. So in a big city, it probably makes a HUGE improvement since the vibration coming from outside is smearing everything and it gets blocked. But it also blocks any internal energy from getting OUT. The HRS footers help to attenuate the energy and relies on the (not HRS) shelf to absorb or diffuse the remaining energy. With the HRS shelf in place it just bounces that energy right back through the footer and into the component, doing more harm then good.

I any rubber based product like Sorbothane and all the other rubber products out there do the same thing. They attenuate and allow the remaining energy to PSS through and dissipate into the shelf below. So the footer alone, depending on the design, can do a really good job of improving isolation and designing vibrational energy from the component. I like using the IsoAcoustics and HRS footers, they work.

Footers like the Magico Qpods (I have a set inbound to audition) and Shunmook footers (also have a set inbound) work similarly. But the Qpod takes an extra step and have a thin layer of (probably) Sorbothane and a Cooper disc which overcomes the poor thermal dissipation of the rubber. The copper theoretically dissipates the heat and makes the aluminum, steel, copper, Sorbothane design more effective at attenuating the vibrational energy then rubber alone. It’s suppsoed to offer a bit of what the Symposium/Critical Mass style shelves do but built right into the footer. I’ll let you know how big a difference that little disc of copper makes. I’m not convinced but ill
let my ears do the judging. Regarding the Shunmook footers, they are a super dense wood and a commercial grade diamond spike. Scientifically, it’s a conundrum. But maybe the density of the ebony they use is perfect to attenuate vibration and dissipate that energy more efficiently then what the other guys use. We shall see....

Footers like standard points and cones, fancy points and cones, StillPoints, Ansuz Darkz, Symposium Rollerblocks, etc all do a great job of coupling the vibrational energy from the rack to the shelf underneath. But by focusing that energy into smaller area it permits some thermal release as the vibrational energy is forced into a volume that can’t contain the vibrational energy without forcing some out as heat. Different companies have come up with different geometric solutions to this and some work VERY well! I have gotten the best results with StillPoints, the Darkz (although I liked the StillPoints more) and Symposium Rollerblocks (but only tried also using their matching shelf). I do honestly think that you probably get more isolation and vibrational attenuation by using this last type of footer and then a shelf from Symposium, Critica Mass, Silent Running, etc.

Then there are designs like Star Sound and Artesani (and the StillPoints rack) where the entire system is built as a single whole with no real shelf. The component is coupled directly to the rack to dissapate heat and vibration, and to isolate. I have heard all three and they work, and work well. Probably amongst the best overall bang for the buck if your looking to replace your whole rack.

Im not sure if that confused you or helped. But it helped me to formulate my thoughts and opinions. As always, thanks for coming along for the ride. Lol.

Dont ask ask me what I decided on yet please. I still need to hear the Qpods and Shunmook footers. And more importantly, I need to decide if I can move my rack to the front of my room without deleterious effects. But I feel like I’m getting closer!!!!
Viscoelastic materials - Sorbothane is one of the least effective of that type material I’ve worked with -when used in conjunction with a constraining layer form a constrained layer damper, which is not a bad idea for damping the top plate of any isolation stand of the mass on spring variety - the gold standard. There is obviously “residual vibration” on the top plate and the component being isolated due to acoustic wave mechanical interaction, vibration from motor, transformer, etc. in the component and very low frequency seismic vibration transmitted via the isolation system, only partially effective for very low frequencies. Mass on spring. So, to be thorough, two things are needed - effective mass on spring isolation and effective damping of the top plate. Also it’s best to have extremely hard footers like NASA grade ceramics to couple the component to the top plate and to couple the iso stand to the floor or shelf, for extremely fast EXIT of vibration, eschewing rubbery materials altogether.
Geoffkait- great post. I needed to read it a few times.  Lol. 

Some definitions :

constrained layer damping - flexing of viscoelastic (VE) material between two layers of a stiff material will generate a shear force on the VE material. The force will stretch the VE material, and the stretching converts the kinetic (acoustic) energy to thermal (heat) energy.

mass on spring damping - loosely, a mass on sprig system implies any system where a mass loads a compressible material, converting kinetic energy into potential energy. 
@mattnshilp and @geoffkait , I appreciate your comments on a very interesting subject, keep it rolling. I’m going to be trying out some of the footers you mentioned and others. I will come back with my findings.

As regards speaker isolation, have a look at Sven Boenicke interesting swing base design. The rear of the speaker hangs from steel threads and the front is supported on a ceramic sphere sitting in non ferrous metal cups, might be brass or gunmetal.

With regard to Shun Mook, the design looks very interesting. I have read some comments that Dalby here in the U.K., have used ebony in an even more effective way. I don’t know anything about this brand, they seem rather elusive, if indeed they still exist.