When is a force not a force? When it’s a voltage. Electromotive force is not (rpt not) a force, as fate would have it. Otherwise, Volts would have units of pounds or kilos or grams or whatever. It’s not the voltage that throws you across the room. It’s the amps, baby,!
Please Read and express your feelings and opinions....
I noticed that lately or maybe for the last five yrs, there is so much arguments,name calling, attacking cables , speakers , components makers and more, more of disagreement with members, even Audio dealers are being attack here...Very few know how to apologize when they are wrong.What can we do as Audiogon members to improve our communication to each other? How to give the informations, recommendation to members who need it? This is without involving Audiogon, any opinion or ideas , For me this is fun and place to learn in audio...thank you all
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Really? Are you serious? What do you think voltage is, my friend? Voltage is "electro motive FORCE". Halving the voltage does not reduce the force to 1/4. It reduces power to 1/4 since the formula for power expressed simply with voltage and resistance is:The problem here is that voltage does not exist without current. The two together are power. Even though we refer to speakers as 'voltage driven' that is a bit of a charged term (referring to the fact that many amplifiers are designed to act as 'voltage sources' and many speakers are designed to expect a voltage source to be driving it); but in fact power is actually making the speaker move. If you can somehow make a speaker move with voltage but *without* current, you will have a new branch of physics :) A 3db reduction is halving amplifier power, which is what drives a loudspeaker. Its the 'force' that makes a speaker move and because of that if you reduce the voltage by half, the power to move the speaker is reduced to 1/4 of previous. |
I believe that the references to force in this discussion are unnecessary and are contributing to confusion, and I believe that Atmasphere is correct. A short while ago I posted as follows in the other thread I referenced above, in relation to this matter: Almarg 4-20-2018My comment was seconded in that thread by Erik_Squires, who is particularly knowledgeable and experienced in speaker design. An excerpt from his post: Erik_Squires 4-20-2018Regards, -- Al |
I believe that the references to force in this discussion are unnecessary and are contributing to confusion, and I believe that Atmasphere is correct. A short while ago I posted as follows in the other thread I referenced above, in relation to this matter: - almarg Look up the formula for sound power. It is defined by a force exerted over an area and assigned a vector (dot product). The formula for electrical power consumed is entirely different and far simpler - based on measured voltage and current. Understanding the distinction between the two is what provides the necessary insight to explain why efficiency is increased when voltage is DIVIDED (series) among loudspeaker drivers and remains unchanged when SPREAD (parallel) across the same driver. This is trivial first year electrical engineering subject matter. I can’t help the fact that you don’t understand it - regardless of your so called "credentials", "qualifications", or number of posts on Audiogon. To pay adequate deference to the people who developed this body of knowledge, you have to pay attention to things like units. Mixing and matching units in these equations results in obvious error. Again, the formula for sound power is readily available on Wikipedia for all to see. It involves applied force and area which dramatically alters the net resulting analysis. Electrical power input is totally separate and distinct and you cannot ASSUME the two are equivalent. There’s a reason the graph shown in the web page for db conversion that Erik linked to has a value of -6db for voltage gain/loss and -3db for sound power. One look at the two formulae for sound power and electrical power will explain why if you care to devote the time to examine them closely. And with that, I’m done attempting to set the record straight. All I get are insults for my trouble. No good deed ever goes unpunished. |
CJ1965 4-20-2018I'm not sure what you are referring to. The only graph on the page addressing db conversion that Erik linked to is this one, and it just deals with voltage, not power. In any event, if (as it appears) you are saying that a 6 db reduction in electrical power into a speaker results in a 3 db reduction in SPL at a given distance, rather than resulting in a 6 db reduction in SPL at that distance, we'll have to agree to disagree. Regards, -- Al |
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