Fantastic points as always Al I don't think i could have said it any better. I have new speakers but the speakers I really lust after are built using the vintage drivers Al describes above.
Yesteryears' expensive speakers compared to modern moderately expensive speakers
For the purpose of this discussion, let’s assume that ...
Yesteryears’ -- 10 -15 years old
Expensive speakers -- $25,000+
Moderately expensive speakers -- $8,000 -- 12,000
I often wonder if it’s worth paying 50% of the original retail price for older speakers that were considered state-of-the-art and flagship during their day. So let’s say an expensive Sonus Faber was around $30,000 in 2005. The seller is asking for $10,000 in 2018. Is it worth paying the asking price, or is one better off buying, say an Olympica III, brand new for about $13-14k (maybe less with dealer discounts)?
I feel that due to trickle-down effects and manufacturing advances and efficiencies, the modern speakers are as good, if not better, than speakers that were twice or thrice the price ten to fifteen years ago. Is this a valid assertion? Or do you guys feel that speaker technology really has not advanced to that extent? In other words, is a flagship speaker worth $30k a decade ago still going to outperform a new one at half its price?
The reason I’m asking is that I am going to save some $$$ this year to buy a speaker in the range of $8000-12,000 in about 6 - 7 months. Since it’s a pretty substantial amount (for me), I am planning to do as much research and auditioning in the next few months. So might as well get started now. Given that it is really difficult to audition used speakers -- not that it’s easy to audition new ones, but at least you can if you try, should I just strike used ones (ones that were uber expensive a few years ago but more affordable now) off of my list and just focus on new?
P.S. -- I’m just using Sonus Faber to illustrate my point, otherwise, I’m very open to anything that is in that price range. I am purposely not turning this into a discussion on what I like, room size, music preferences, etc just yet since I want to stay focused on the topic -- yesteryears’ expensive speakers vs not-so-expensive modern ones.
P.S -- I understand that Tekton is going to render all other speakers obsolete in due time, and I respect the opinions of those who agree with the assertions, but please understand that it is not going to be on my list. Period. I will really appreciate if we don’t turn this thread into a Tekton battleground.
Yesteryears’ -- 10 -15 years old
Expensive speakers -- $25,000+
Moderately expensive speakers -- $8,000 -- 12,000
I often wonder if it’s worth paying 50% of the original retail price for older speakers that were considered state-of-the-art and flagship during their day. So let’s say an expensive Sonus Faber was around $30,000 in 2005. The seller is asking for $10,000 in 2018. Is it worth paying the asking price, or is one better off buying, say an Olympica III, brand new for about $13-14k (maybe less with dealer discounts)?
I feel that due to trickle-down effects and manufacturing advances and efficiencies, the modern speakers are as good, if not better, than speakers that were twice or thrice the price ten to fifteen years ago. Is this a valid assertion? Or do you guys feel that speaker technology really has not advanced to that extent? In other words, is a flagship speaker worth $30k a decade ago still going to outperform a new one at half its price?
The reason I’m asking is that I am going to save some $$$ this year to buy a speaker in the range of $8000-12,000 in about 6 - 7 months. Since it’s a pretty substantial amount (for me), I am planning to do as much research and auditioning in the next few months. So might as well get started now. Given that it is really difficult to audition used speakers -- not that it’s easy to audition new ones, but at least you can if you try, should I just strike used ones (ones that were uber expensive a few years ago but more affordable now) off of my list and just focus on new?
P.S. -- I’m just using Sonus Faber to illustrate my point, otherwise, I’m very open to anything that is in that price range. I am purposely not turning this into a discussion on what I like, room size, music preferences, etc just yet since I want to stay focused on the topic -- yesteryears’ expensive speakers vs not-so-expensive modern ones.
P.S -- I understand that Tekton is going to render all other speakers obsolete in due time, and I respect the opinions of those who agree with the assertions, but please understand that it is not going to be on my list. Period. I will really appreciate if we don’t turn this thread into a Tekton battleground.
- ...
- 35 posts total
I suppose the answer is 'it depends'. There have been advances in the past 10-15 years in terms of material science, computer modeling, and even in the scientific understanding of how we process sound and the measurements needed during loudspeaker development to optimize them for that. Some companies embraced science in loudspeaker development far earlier than others. Harman, Paradigm, and PSB are great examples of companies that were science-forward before the crowd, and their older designs hold up better, at least IMO, than companies whose approach was 'throw a bunch of fancy drivers and high end components in a box' without regard to baffle interaction and diffraction, dispersion characteristics (either overall or between drivers at the crossover points), power step response, or smooth frequency response. I'd use the Revel Salon2 as an example of a speaker that was designed right from the beginning. Even though they're 10 years old at this point Revel hasn't felt the need to redesign them because so far nothing has beaten them in Harman's blind listening tests in their sound lab, even speakers costing considerably more. In fact, they've held their own so well that they're about to undergo a 20% price increase with no substantive changes other than some new finishes becoming available. You can find them pre-owned for a nice savings, and I'd consider that a solid value. At the same time, you could compare them to a new product like the Revel F228be which goes new for roughly what a pre-owned pair of Salon2 does, features a lot of trickle-down technology from the Ultima2 line such as the beryllium tweeter and improved crossover networks, and has things the Ultima2 line doesn't such as the new deep ceramic composite cones. Revel says the Salon2 still wins in listening tests, but the F228be closed the gap considerably from the F208, and the F228be comes brand-spankin'-new with a full warranty. A great resource to see measurements of a number of speakers both new and older is Soundstage's list of speakers they've tested at the Canadian NRC's anechoic chamber. Since the research from Harman's Dr. Toole has shown that listener preference is very strongly correlated with not only a smooth on-axis response, but on a smooth off-axis response as well, even at extreme angles so that the first reflections and reverberant field don't create peaks or nulls, it's a great way to get an idea of well designed speakers that may be worth a closer look. https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid... |
Hi arafiq If I were spending over $500.00 (sometimes less) on speakers I would be looking into if the speaker is going to be used in a living room or dedicated listening room (that's first on my list). The more complicated a speaker is designed the more it can be fussy about the room it is going to be interfaced with. Keep in mind that a speaker is what stimulates the room, the room's sound is what you actually hear. One of the major reasons why we see expensive speakers selling for less and less is because listeners are getting wise to the speaker setup, again. And, many more costly speakers simply don't cut the mustard when it comes to room/speaker interfacing. Last year I bought over 15 pair of speakers ranging up to $18,000.00, and did quick auditions of pairs over $100,000.00. In my 6 listening rooms, even after tuning them to the speakers, people chose the simple designs over the "modern" speaker designs. The common reason was "the HEA speakers sound squeezed and fake". The simple speakers played the acoustical instruments "more true to life". In this hobby you can always spend more, but hearing more is not included in the price tag. Michael Green www.michaelgreenaudio.net |
| Post removed |
- 35 posts total