SAEC Making Tonearms Again!

@chakster : """  Several years ago you'be been fighting with a'gon members regarding your idea that "naked fashion" (no plinth at all) SP-10mkII is better than any plinth. Do you remember? ......................................................
Now you're talking about "a special plinth to avoid resonances/vibrations", could you explain? ..............................................................................
In many cases on this forum you're controversial to yourself, your own statements (from 5 year ago for example) regarding cartridges, tonearms, plinth etc is often completely different to your current statements. "


As I said " no common sense at all ". 100% of audiophile TTs comes with a plinth a very special plinth to avoid resonances/vibrations or at least put at minimum and why is this: because those resonances/vibrations degrades in severe ways our home audio system listen experiences.
Our needs in that regards is a lot more critical than in radio stations where even the frequency response where it works is truly limited and surrounded of several kind of developed and induced " noises " that the radio listeners just do not cares about.

Exist no controversy or a contradiction when tears ago I posted that the best plinth is no plinth and that the best performance in the SP-10s came with the TT in naked fashion  and still think in that way because the SP10s plinths are a " mess " of plinth.

One thing is to make reference on a specific TT model and other way different to refer to all TTs in the market.

"""  Which make me think that all your current statements about vintage analog equipmentn will mean nothing in the next 5 years.   """


Nothing wrong with that because I'm not like you or other gentlemans that are " sticky " in many ways.

When any one is day by day learning then we can confirm ( again and again. ) our audio believes/experiences or that learning day by day can makes we time to time amend our " mistakes " our way of thinking in some specific regards.
We have the rigth to " learn " and not to stay witing for " dead ", we have to be and to have a very active role in our each one audio picture/movie.


Stevenson: "   the question was about Japanese manufacturers and you can’t speak for them, because you don’t know what to say about their theoretical point of view, .... "

then why don't ask them?. I did it with no sense answers because ignorance.

About pro-industry: why don't ask them?  why? in this case I never did it because I did not and do not need it. 


Obviously you already cross " that " border so you don't need to post:

"  i will stop communicate with you foreve ..""

because I already posted my attitude when some one cross over " that " border .


R.

Who cares about any version of SP10 and all those ridiculous plinths? There are many better current turntables on the market, with proper plinths. If anyone wants to experience that Technics sound, there's a 1200G available all day any day. And it doesn't require some lumberyard plinth. It comes with its own heavy aluminum dampened plinth! All of these SP10s should be put out of their misery.

@invictus005
Don’t forget that audiogon members experienced that Technics reference sound for 20-30 years or even longer. The SP-10 mkIII was one of the ultimate Direct Drive ever made for decades. The best plinth makers offered an amazing plinth for SP-10mkII and mkIII over the years. Some users are fine with the origina Obsidian plinth too. The EPA-100 mkII Boron-Titanium is still one of the best tonearms ever made.

Second hand Technics EPA-100 and SP-10mkII has the best value today and they are still great, no matter what you personally think about it. There is no comparison between SP-10mkIII and SP-10R made yet, only at the Technics factory. But there is already a lot of speculations about it.

Until 2017 there was no SL1200G, GR, GAE
... and until summer 2018 there is no SP10R, SP1000R on the market!

I agree that SP-10R is what we should think about, but not the SL1200G, you will see them for sale used on audiogon when the SP-10R will be released! Technics reference series does not looks like an old SL1200 with new motor and new plinth, the reference is SP-10R and SP-10 mkIII is next to it.  

There are many vintage DD on the market with a proper plinth, one of them is Luxman PD-444 in aluminum plinth with armboards for almost any tonearms. Victor TT-101 is another coreless DD. Why should the owner of the great classic DDs should care about SL1200G which is not even reference Technics? We will see when the hype is over.

SP-10R is the target for serious audiophiles, but it’s 14 000 UK Pounds, while the SP-10mkIII is much cheaper.

@invictus005  

I am pretty new around the forums, but been a member a long time. I also know that the Technics threads on many sites can get heated, as well as the whole BD/DD/Idler dust up. So I don't know if this is just  lure dragging exercise, but I will give it a bite. 

I have owned many nice belt drives over the years, VPI, Townshend, Well Tempered, Sonegraphe, Teres, Galibier, and a few others. A few years ago I took the plunge into restored idlers, and owned  a TD124 and a 401, which were both nice tables. 

Now in the past I have tried to like DD tables, and owned a SP25, SP15, and fostered a 1200. I hated every single one of them, and found them to be dark, losing inner detail, and dynamically compressed. On a lark I bought a SP 10 MK II, thinking there is no way I like this thing, but got to give it a shot. It took me a couple of years to get it into a plinth, but once I started playing it I found it was the equal of the best tables I have heard. I ended up buying a Denon DP 75, then another SP 10 MK II. What I found is the drive units sound so similar, and get out of the way of the music. Cartridges and tone arms make far more difference than the drive units do. I have put some good cartridges on them, with a few being in the $4 to $6K range. And I even have love for a $175 Denon DL 304 I picked up and use as a casual vinyl cartridge on the second SP 10 MK II. 

People like what they like, and there is more than one way to audio nirvana. If you like a BD thats great, same with idler, heck us vinyl people should be celebrating that our little niche in the hobby is so strong these days. But I do know that a Technics SP 10 MK II is a mighty fine table, and they don't cost an arm and a leg, and you can get some remarkable sound quality from them if you invest a bit of time, effort, and money into them. 

Regards
Neonknight