How much do I need to spend to get a preamp that sounds better than no preamp?

Anthony (Clio09), yes, it was clear to me as to whom you were attacking, but thanks for making sure.

I do think, however, that the explanation Paul McGowan stated is technically plausible, and could very well support the notion that in **some** cases inserting an active preamp between a power amp and a source component containing a DAC could result in performance that is objectively as well as subjectively better than a direct connection. And likewise with respect to my own hypothesis that I presented in conjunction with his.

Best regards,
-- Al

honashagen OP58 posts05-25-2018 9:42pmFrom Oppo tech:

The BDP-105 players will not lose resolution since they are 32-bit DACs. So they are the ideal solution if you want to go direct to an amplifier.

This is from a discussion I had with Thorsten Loesch the designer/owner of the very hiend digital company AMR digital.

" Turn down the volume even the tiniest bit using the digital volume control and the sound quality to a massive hit.
I have tried many times, the minimum attenuation in the digital domain possible seems to destroy the sound quality of any true high end DAC I have owned. This includes using PC software that claims to have a super duper digital volume control. "

I and others I know also Wadia states the same that you can go down a little to 75% of full, maybe Thorsten has bat ears.

Cheers George

As I sit here listening with no preamp, it seems like common sense would tell you that if a preamp alters the sound from the source in any way it's really a processor of some type. Right? 

"Any! active stage/s introduces noise hum and distortions, increase their gain and you increase those as well." 

Nonsense. I don’t care who said this. Active circuits have long been proven to be less noisy than a simple resistor for proper buffering and volume control applications. Why? they have both high input impedance to precisely preserve input signal and low output impedance in order to drive whatever follows.

Honashagen  5-26-2018
As I sit here listening with no preamp, it seems like common sense would tell you that if a preamp alters the sound from the source in any way it's really a processor of some type. Right? 

... Unless, that is, the presence of the preamp somehow causes the source component to behave in a more accurate manner.  And as you've read above, there are what I would consider to be plausible technical explanations for why that may be the case in some systems. 

Also, my perception has been that in past threads in which the preamp/no preamp issue has been discussed a significant majority of the reported user experiences has been that the addition of an active preamp to the path between a source component containing a DAC and a power amp has been beneficial.  I would not assume that all and perhaps even most of those experiences were the result of inaccuracies introduced by the preamp.

Subtle effects can often occur in electronic circuits and systems that have consequences which are counter-intuitive, and that are not necessarily consistent with what "common sense" may lead one to expect.

Regards,
-- Al