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Technics Sp10 Mk2 vs SL-1200G - I finally did an A/B

Guys, it is payback time. I have asked so many questions here to improve my knowledge or make a good purchase. I should give back now.

This is a topic that is HOT these days. Are the new generation Technics 1200G/GAE and Sp10-R better than the vintage Sp10 Mk2 and Mk3 ? 

I have myself asked this question multiple times here. The most common reply was a resounding "Yes" in favour of the new 1200G/GAE. The 10R is still too new and not many have a direct opinion. But in general, even those who have commented on the 1200G vs Sp10 mk2, almost no one has compared them side by side. Some have written based on aural memory, some based on specs and design, and some have written based on pure subjective opinion.

In any case, most of us are very happy that Technics has done it. A very few business oriented minds might be disappointed that their business around vintage Technics DDs would take some hit due to these modern machines.

Since I was in the market for a good high resolution TT to replace my modded Loricraft Garrard 301, I took active interest in the Technics DDs. Overall I was convinced that the 1200G is the machine to look out for. It was clearly favored over the smaller sp10 and more or less compared to the bigger sp10 mk3. I got a brand new 1200G and sent it to Time-Step audio for their Evoke PSU mod. It is a very well accepted mod in the UK markets. In general the Switch-Mode PSU of the 1200G is considered its Achilles heel so this mod was a necessity.

I finally had the 1200G at my home. I won't go into the process of setting up as it was a simple and straight forward one. I used its own Technics tonearm to start with. I tried couple of platter mats but its own default mat sounded fine so it remained. I have 2 cartridges to play, the Denon 103r and Ortofon Cadenza blue. None of them are esoteric stuff, but I find them very neutral and musically "right" sounding carts.

Straightaway the 1200G revealed that it was a more transparent and higher resolution player than the Garrard. The noise floor was lower, inner details more easily heard. Soundstage more precise and layered. Great! There was an extra sparkle to the sound which was quite thrilling. More like going from HD to UHD. What felt a bit lacking was overall dynamics and scale. The 1200G sounded "Compact". The Garrard was like a full blown full scale sound. I let the 1200G run at 78rpm for many hours so that the burn-in process is expedited. I also tried both the auto and manual servo settings to vary the torque and balance of the sound. As I listened more I also realized that the 1200G does not have the fluidity that I am used to with the Garrard or other belt drive TTs I have heard. Notes bloom but die out instantly, followed by a silence before the next note. Something that joins the notes so that it all sounds related was missing a bit. In terms of dynamics, the intensity of an "explosion or a shout" was kind of controlled. That takes away a bit of that startle factor which allows us to get awestruck with our systems. Bass on the 1200G sounded a bit chopped. It did not feel very deep and powerful. I rather felt I am listening to mid-upper bass with average impact. But when it came to details it sounded like a super Cd player in a good way.

I decided to play with the tonearm at this point. I have a 47 Labs RS-A1 tonearm which has its own standing mount. One can just lift it and place it at the right distance so that the under-hang is correct and you are good to go. It is a musical tonearm. Once installed, this tonearm gave the Technics a significant jump on the performance. Especially it made the Technics sound less hifi and more musical, more fluid, more jump factor. Just plain more realistic. But then it brought the same kind of improvements to the Garrard too. I did a lot of comparison shifting this tonearm between the 2 TTs. All my above comments about their differences holds true. 

After about 2 weeks and multiple hours of comparison on all kinds of music, I decided that while there are areas where the Garrard lacks and Technics clearly shines, musically Garrard is more realistic whereas Technics is more cerebral. I knew I was going to miss that hi-rez sparkle from Technics but I could only keep one so it has to go. I sold the 1200G. But the curiosity still remained so I bought a Sp10 Mk2.

After there 1200G left my place, the Sp10 Mk2 arrived. I did not have a plinth but I had read on Audiogon that it can be used in the naked form with a suitable isolation like the Audio Technica AT-636 Pneumatic footers. I have those footers so I installed the Sp10 on those footers and used the 47 Labs tonearm with Denon 103r for listening.

In the first 10 secs it was clear the Sp10 Mk2 is a more dynamic player than the 1200G. It sounded more like a Garrard in terms of scale, dynamics and drive. At the same time it was more transparent than Garrard. I had read couple of opinions that the vintage Sp10 DDs has more torquey motor drive. Here I was clearly hearing that. If I enter the room, I would not know which player is playing simply because of the similarity in slam, dynamics and tonality. My Garrard has the audiosilente idler wheel, woodsong audio brake disc and kokomo bearings. It is also driven by a dedicated AC regenerator for a clean AC input. In effect it is a much cleaner and neutral TT than typical Garrards. The Sp10 Mk2 is a less romantic sounding TT overall but it does not feel "compact", "thin" or "bright". It sounds natural, which is a very important trait to enjoy music. It sounds big and punchy without sounding colored or veiled. I have not even installed the plinth yet. My Garrard is still the king in the system but the Sp10 is a good contender with higher resolution and lower noise floor overall.

Guys, I don't know how to put it. I am not here to spoil the party of the 1200G/GAE owners. It is definitely a very complete package. You get warranty, company support, spares and all the peace of mind with the new Technics DDs. But if you are one of those adventurous types deciding between the old school and new gen Technics TT, the old Sp10 mk2/mk3 wins it for me, purely from the sound quality perspective. New technology probably has given the new Technics a bit more refinement but the drive, excitement and immediacy of real instruments still is conveyed best by the grand old boys.

My system:
. Loricraft Garrard 301 (mods: Kokomo mk2 bearing, Audiosilente idler wheel, Woodsong audio brake disc, Funkfirm Achromat, Monarcy Audio AC regenerator)
. 47 Labs RS-A1 tonearm
. Ortofon Cadenza Blue, Denon 103r carts
. Trilogy 907 phonostage
. Berning MicroZOTL 2.0 preamp
. Audio Note Conquest Silver Signature SET monoblock amps
. Tannoy Turnberry SE speakers

P.S: I did not compare the 2 Technics side by side but it was almost back to back as the Sp10 arrived after 3-4 days of the departure of 1200G. Since it was all in my own system, I had a good hang of what they felt like.
pani
pani OP
1,049 posts
 
@lewm, I haven’t heard the great Mk3 so I did not write about it. Steve Dobbins once told me that a real competitor of a fully done up Garrard is the Mk3, not the Mk2. My Garrard still doesn’t have a Dobbins platter which is a missing link. 

Anyway, my sp10 is in excellent shape. It was nicely refurbished in Switzerland. But it doesn’t have th krebs mod yet. I would love to try the full plinth option but for that I will have to get a plinth. Probably the Mk2 will sound fuller and voluptuous with the plinth which could be interesting. 

My motive was to compare the 2 Technics TTs of similar price. The 1200g and sp10 Mk2 both target similar audiophile tastes and budget.
chakster's avatar
chakster
2,482 posts
 
Good news, Pani
Why not a better cartridge for comparison of such a nice turntables ?

As for the price i don’t agree, about $4000 for SL1200G is much higher that $1400 for a good SP-10mkII. If the old turntable is better than new it is even much cheaper than new. But i’m not sure how much people payin’ for mods. Anyway i sold my SP-10mkII in mint condition for $2600, but with the mega rare Micro Seiki CU-500 (2.7kg, thick copper mat). Still much lower than new $4000 SL1200G.


BTW how much was the Evoke PSU mod for SL1200G?
pani OP
1,049 posts
 
@chakster the typical market price for a really nice sp10 Mk2 is $2500 and thereof. There are many examples of sp10 with many scratches, paint peeled off and letters worn out. They go for less than $2k. 
if you add a plinth and starter tonearm to this combo, we are looking at $3.5k which is not far off from a 1200g. Where 1200g needs a evoke PSU, the sp10 can be bettered with a krebs mod, both cost similar amounts. 

Regarding carts, I personally feel the fundamentals of music is very well revealed with neutral and straightforward cartridges like the 103r and Cadenza Blue. The phonostage must be a good one else there will be a lot of loss there 
chakster's avatar
chakster
2,482 posts
 
To be honest i’ve never seen stock SP-10 mkII drive for $2500 anywhere for sale (it’s too high), i paid $1200 including express delivery from Hong Kong for my SP-10mkII and there is no single scratch on it. Now they are still $1200-1400 top without any proper mats of course, but this is an average price for this exellent turntable, not the $2500. I’m not counting the mods (not sure if anyone even needs a mod to enjoy SP-10mkII), i’ve read people are sceptical about Krebs mod here on audiogon. I’ve never had any single issues with my SP-10 mkII i’ve bought for $1200 including shipping, cosmetical condition was like new and operation condition also great, absolutely no problem. All i did is adding some oil once a year.

I’m just trying to say that anyone can buy SP-10mkII in perfect condition for $1400 top and the original obsidian plinth SH-10B3 is on ebay for $375 right now (without dust cover). I think most audiophiles already have multiply tonearms, so no need to buy a tonearm.

Even the plinth is questinable if the owner has Audio-Technica pneumatic footers, especially the big ones (i love them). At least your SP-10 mkII impressed you much without the plinth at all. And it was better than SL1200G.

In other words the SP-10mkII (+ SH10B3 for example) for half price of the SL1200G is still a better choice as i can see by reading your review. That’s nice!

Lucky people in Japan can buy SP-10 mkII for $800 in top condition, but the SL1200G will cost them at least $3500.

Sadly you have sold your modded SL1200G few days before the arrival of SP-10mkII, direct A/B would be stronger prove.

But anyway, thank you for this review. I was sceptical about SL1200G from the start and always posted that SP-10mkII has a better price, probably "best buy" DD turntable on the used market. However, still prefer my Luxman PD-444s.

P.S. this is the first review in favor of SP-10mkII (without plinth) over the SL1200G


lewm
6,770 posts
 
Not too many of those $1200 to $1400 SP10 Mk2s have already been refurbished, freshened with new electrolytic capacitors where needed, and calibrated by someone who knows what they are doing.  That’s what bugs me when I read that someone compared this or that vintage DD turntable to their favorite belt-drive or whatever, and found the DD to be second best.  Most of the DDs floating around out there for sale are in unknown condition, even if they “work”.

Good idea to do the Krebs mod on the Mk2.  IMO, the Mk2 potentially benefits from the Krebs even more than does the Mk3, and yet the mod is less expensive when applied to the Mk2.  (I had it done to my Mk3 by Bill Thalmann.  I was surprised at the improvement, because I heard no real “problem” related to the issue that Krebs addresses, a priori. Whereas, I think I could hear why the Mk2 would benefit, back when I owned one.)
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