1. Home
  2. tech-talk
  3. 135904-110926

Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


michaelgreenaudio
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
4,946 posts
 
Trivia time.

You can tune a piano but you can’t tuna fish was actually the title of an album by Reo Speedwagon. No idea if they were first to use that phrase but there you go.

Now I will be leaving this thread as MG is quite right, I have no place here as I will never be walking HIS walk by HIS terms.

Just an example.
I returned home late last night from my daughter’s graduation and after having had to deal with real live people all night(yuk!), I plonked myself down in my fave sofa, turned on my music maker and just drifted away to heavenly sounds and relaxed.

Now if tuning involves moving blocks around under components, opening up covers and snipping cable ties around caps etc to optimise each recording then I am never climbing on that bus and freely admit it.
Anything of that nature would have taken all the instant gratification and relaxation out of last night.

Please note I am not saying that MG tuning is not real or has its place and gets results, it is just not for me. But good luck to all who walk that path in all sincerity.

I will stick to just being a tweaker.

So long and thanks for the fish!
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
14,147 posts
 
Sorry, dudes and dudettes, listening to music is not really a hobby. It may be enjoyable and you may do it frequently and you may do it for long periods of time sometimes but it’s not a hobby. Any more than watching Model trains go around the track is a hobby, without building the tracks, painting the train cars, the scenery, town, adding automation, whatever, etc. The audio hobby means rolling up your sleeves and actively seeking good sound, and better sound. Unless you believe audio is a plug-and-play experience. In which case you’re not in the hobby anyway. Or if you wouldn’t be more entertained by better sound. In which case you’re not in the hobby, either. A hobby should be active, interactive. But maybe this a a good definition of hobby for some of you,

“A hobby is something to keep you busy and stop you from getting into mischief.”
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
4,946 posts
 
Did anybody claim that listening to music is a hobby?
I certainly did not and do not recall a post saying that either. But I also did not search too hard so somebody may have done.
Rather listening to music is the end result of the hobby and such that in some instances people tend to get a little lost in actually remembering that.

Now if because I choose not to follow MG method of tuning blindly and that makes ME NOT a member of this hobby club then so be it, I can live with that.

My sole aim is to be able to sit down, listen to music and be relaxed.
If that makes me out to "not get it"that is also cool.

You will find me on my sofa......

Ciao.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
14,147 posts
 
Did I just see a ghost? 

👻
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
643 posts
 

Take care uberwaltz.

not for you :) we'll see!

Hi Folks

I've stated this earlier but nows a good time to review. I have several systems. One very much like uberwaltz just described. I come in plop down and fade away. It's pretty much a tweak and leave. I also have a plug & play HEA system. I have a casual system, a headphone system and of course the Tunable system.

Why do I bring this up again? Well because it's part of my personal walking. Often on this thread I've read people trying to define the tunable system as this monster that is constantly in need of a tuning, and the truth is, I've never said that and it's not true. The fact is my tunable system is by far the best sounding one I have, but also is the most stable system able to play more music without touching it. At the same time having the ability to take it much further than my other systems it's the ultimate win win for me. Do I enjoy the other systems? You bet, I love them but here's something else that for me is important. You know how people say they have a rock system, or a jazz system, or classical system? Well my tunable system is all three. I can line up my jazz recordings and set the system to one particular sound and have a blast. A few days or weeks later I can reset that same system to classic rock and do the same thing. And classical to boot often gets a different setting. Or I can set the system up and leave it for months if I want never touching a thing but the remote and CDP.

For those times when I do want to get adventurous this baby goes pretty much where ever I want to go. I know people have come up to say how they couldn't handle all the adjusting and I wonder if they've missed the point or if I explained it wrong and giving the picture of this thing with a thousand arms out of control, where the true is quite the opposite. Fact is the components in my tunable system are much easier to tune up than my turntables ever were. And I had 12 or so TTs at one time. Talk about touchy. So I mostly reject the whole going nuts tuning thing. Personally I think the objections are because this might be new to some folks and combined with that audiophile forum skeptic entitlement of pressing any persona thing (deep breath) stuff gets very weird and can turn into a complete misinfomercial event. I don't know why people do that but it turns me off to the point I won't even talk to the person. I'm sure my turn off to that made some turned off to me, but that sort of thing is separate from tuning your system.

I hope in time this thread becomes more of a gel and less of a jail.

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net 

More to discover