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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


michaelgreenaudio
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
643 posts
 

Take care uberwaltz.

not for you :) we'll see!

Hi Folks

I've stated this earlier but nows a good time to review. I have several systems. One very much like uberwaltz just described. I come in plop down and fade away. It's pretty much a tweak and leave. I also have a plug & play HEA system. I have a casual system, a headphone system and of course the Tunable system.

Why do I bring this up again? Well because it's part of my personal walking. Often on this thread I've read people trying to define the tunable system as this monster that is constantly in need of a tuning, and the truth is, I've never said that and it's not true. The fact is my tunable system is by far the best sounding one I have, but also is the most stable system able to play more music without touching it. At the same time having the ability to take it much further than my other systems it's the ultimate win win for me. Do I enjoy the other systems? You bet, I love them but here's something else that for me is important. You know how people say they have a rock system, or a jazz system, or classical system? Well my tunable system is all three. I can line up my jazz recordings and set the system to one particular sound and have a blast. A few days or weeks later I can reset that same system to classic rock and do the same thing. And classical to boot often gets a different setting. Or I can set the system up and leave it for months if I want never touching a thing but the remote and CDP.

For those times when I do want to get adventurous this baby goes pretty much where ever I want to go. I know people have come up to say how they couldn't handle all the adjusting and I wonder if they've missed the point or if I explained it wrong and giving the picture of this thing with a thousand arms out of control, where the true is quite the opposite. Fact is the components in my tunable system are much easier to tune up than my turntables ever were. And I had 12 or so TTs at one time. Talk about touchy. So I mostly reject the whole going nuts tuning thing. Personally I think the objections are because this might be new to some folks and combined with that audiophile forum skeptic entitlement of pressing any persona thing (deep breath) stuff gets very weird and can turn into a complete misinfomercial event. I don't know why people do that but it turns me off to the point I won't even talk to the person. I'm sure my turn off to that made some turned off to me, but that sort of thing is separate from tuning your system.

I hope in time this thread becomes more of a gel and less of a jail.

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net 

geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
14,147 posts
 
People oft deride audiophiles for turning a somewhat benign hobby into a ritualistic and even a fetish. Look at treating CDs. Folks twenty years ago were put off, should I say repelled, by the ritual some audiophiles, even well known audiophiles like Bob Crump and Clark Johnsen, performed before playing a CD. You know, the sprays, the buffing, coloring the stupid thing, demagnetizing it, even “chipping” the damn thing. Many audiophiles would say, Whoa! Hey, I’m not getting involved in all of that. I’m obsessive enough now. Still others would say, that’s stupid. That can’t really do anything anyway, you change the physical data on the disc. It’s all 1s and 0s. So what’s the point? So, obviously at some point there was a fork in the road, the tweakers, the doers,,went one way and the anti tweakers, the ones who touted the equipment, went another. Now, here it is twenty years down the road and audiophiles still have their rituals. Perhaps even more ritualistic, what with the long burn in periods with some of the new tweaks on the block. 😩
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
643 posts
 

Wow this was good!!!!

"Sorry, dudes and dudettes, listening to music is not really a hobby. It may be enjoyable and you may do it frequently and you may do it for long periods of time sometimes but it’s not a hobby. Any more than watching Model trains go around the track is a hobby, without building the tracks, painting the train cars, the scenery, town, adding automation, whatever, etc. The audio hobby means rolling up your sleeves and actively seeking good sound, and better sound. Unless you believe audio is a plug-and-play experience. In which case you’re not in the hobby anyway. Or if you wouldn’t be more entertained by better sound. In which case you’re not in the hobby, either. A hobby should be active, interactive. But maybe this a a good definition of hobby for some of you"

I’ll take what he’s having.

 In fact I'll take the check.
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
643 posts
 
All I can say is "preach it brother". Folks Geoff Kait is laying down some good reads!!
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
4,946 posts
 
Katie
I realise your reading and comprehension skills are a little rusty but....
Yes I said I would be leaving this thread as it serves no purpose for me and I none for the OP.
However I did NOT say that was my last post or just when I would leave .
So, now here is the one you thought you read.
This is my last post on this thread.
Got it?
Keep up the good work.
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