2. amps-preamps
  3. 136421-89400

Pre amps cost vs. value ... what I discovered last month.

Greetings all.

I’m a mastering engineer. www.magicgardenmastering.com . We use Acoustic Zen balanced cabling, highly modified Cary 211 FE tube amps, Bricasti M1 SE DAs and Joachim Gerhard’s Allegra speakers. TORUS balanced power comes 220 from the street. The room is excellent, and you would love to hear it.

For 15 years the pre amp/router was a Crane Song Avocet. I paid around $1800 for it.

Recently decided to try a couple of audiophile products in the pre amp stage and was shocked and saddened how bad they were. Yes, the studio designed Avocet has a relay click for each 1db step, and yes it has a rack mounted 2U body with a corded remote, but it’s clear folks are really getting taken to the cleaners on pre amps. The older and highly regarded Boulder 1010 (used price $5500), was just terrible, truly terrible. The new and fully broken in BAT vk-43SE (demo price $7500) was much better, but still had a cloudy tone as compared to the class A Avocet. Not sure if that’s the cap or the transformer, but it made everything less clear and more generic, more distant from the music.

That’s all. Happy listening.
brianlucey
tomcy6's avatar
tomcy6
1,368 posts
 
Brian,  Thanks for stopping by for this chat.  I think your sample of audiophile preamps was too small. I'm pretty sure you could find something at a reasonable price that could outperform your current pre.  I'm a little surprised that you jumped to the conclusion that audiophile preamps are poor quality/value when all of your other gear is audiophile gear.

Can you tell us what is going on with overcompressed recordings?  I can see the argument for dynamic ranges of 5 or 6 for hip-hop or contemporary pop, but why is everything else being squashed too?  Who is responsible for this and what can be done about it?
onhwy61's avatar
onhwy61
4,163 posts
 
Here's a review of the Cranesong Avocet by Bob Katz
maplegrovemusic's avatar
maplegrovemusic
981 posts
 
Anything in the pro audio world for volume control has worked with a multitude of amps , speakers , etc... in my experience .  Only the HIFI preamps have I had problems . Go Figure!  
douglas_schroeder
1,824 posts
 
The mastering speaker system is using speakers with low end extension of about 50Hz +/- 3dB? 



auxinput
1,538 posts
 

Just to add some observations.  The Crane Song Avocent may be an older device, but I cannot see that it uses op amps of any type (unless they are to be used as assists in power supply or other circuits.  As far as I can tell from images, the Avocet uses fully discrete circuits (as it is labeled "Discrete Class A Studio Controller".

It's interesting that you did not like the Boulder.  I have never heard it, but I believe that it uses bipolar audio stages (as opposed to FET based).  Each has it's own sound, but bipolar is usually cleaner sounding. 

I have read that BAT equipment is nice, but it does sound a little dark.  That particular BAT preamp looks to be a fully solid-state FET based device (no tubes, which is unusual for BAT).  It has a seriously massive main power supply, which is great for bass and midbass response.  However, I don't see a lot of smaller capacitors and I can't identify where the gain stages are.  Anyways, interesting product.

brianlucey - I suspect many of your responses are due towards personal taste as well as system synergy.  Like everyone else here, welcome to the journey of buying and selling.  It has been a journey for me as I have learned what types of equipment I like and what I do not like.  Many people will agree with my results, but many will also disagree with their own preferences, lol.

For comments on "pro equipment", there are different levels of pro equipment.  Brian is obviously playing on the top tier of equipment.  If you look at "common pro equipment", you will actually find a lot of junk, such as anything Behringer (etc.).  Lot's of mid-level stuff.  You won't get to the top level until you start getting stuff that uses discrete op amp modules (such as MM-99 or JFET-993, etc.).  This is very expensive stuff.

Bryan - maybe you might look into whether you like more of a FET based sound or a bipolar.  The bipolar are usually cleaner (less distortion), but they can also be somewhat clinical/sterile at times.  The FET based circuits do add a color or texture to the sound which can be very pleasing to some people.  The Boulder 1010 is bipolar.  I suspect the Crane Song may be FET based.  The BAT vk-43SE is definitely FET based circuit.  Maybe look into one of the Pass Labs preamps (such as XP-30).  Pass likes to use discrete FET based audio stages.

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