Cable Burn In

I don't care why it works technically.  Just like I don't care why SR duplexes, fuses and HFTs work, or Stillpoints or Omega E-Mats.  They work for my system and my friends systems.  My cable manufacturing friend doesn't use SR tweaks or stillpoints or E-Mats.  However, he heard the difference between SR blue fuses and his stock fuses and decided to eliminate the fuse with a breaker instead which resulted in a sound similar to the effect of an SR blue fuse.  His system and room are diametrically different acoustically (mine-live, high vaulted ceilings, windows and large room with flat walls with 4.5 way large high sensitivity speakers/his-damped room, low flat acoustic tile ceilings, small room with two way high resolution, low sensitivity speakers).  Two different rooms and systems to address the cabling effects for different systems.

I don't know what cooking cables does.  Same with components in equipment (like capacitors) and speaker cones and panels.  The latter two I've heard change over time, breaking in so to speak without regard to their technical changes.   

What I think is happening is an electrical circuit or field is changed while the cable or capacitor is charged.  Speaker cones and panels vibrate and become less stiff.  One's electrical and the other is mechanical.  It's just the way it is.  I buy into the burning in concept because I can hear it.  

I’m not quite sure I see why the military would have any use for cables that outperform. Unless maybe the General was an audiophile. Obviously there are technical standards for BER, voice recognition, signal to noise ratio, that sort of thing.

fleschler
390 posts                                                                          07-29-2018 11:40pm

I test cables without electronic testing equipment. I’m sure my high end system is junk to professionals although I’ve appraised 27 SoCal & San Fran recording studios in my former profession. I must say, the recording engineers had hearing deficiencies by the time they were 50 and result in non-flat sounding studio audio setups in many of them. Luckily, I’m friends with some remastering engineers with superb hearing, Kevin Gray, Steve Hoffman and Robert Pincus. I also do recording and remastering for a local orchestra, choirs, chamber orch., etc.

Back to my testing. I receive up to four versions of a cable, differing sometimes as little as having a 26 gauge versus a 30 gauge conductor or return wire or a copper, silver or rhodium connection difference. I won’t seriously compare them to the current, burned in version until I’ve cooked them as they generally (90% of the time) sound worse to start with. Sometimes, the newest version is better sounding than the current model due to significant changes in the design, such as when the new version reduced capacitance by 50% through additional teflon shielding over conductors and/or returns.

I don’t care that a machine will tell me that they all test the same other than for capacitance, inductance or resistance. The manufacturer tests for the basics. What we do is determine if sonically, we prefer the current version or the new version, usually its the current version. When multiple changes have occurred in the new version and it is significantly better, the manufacturer renames it. This has happened a half dozen times in the past 15+ years. A high percentage of the time, the cables do not meet up to the current version. The manufacturer is continually tinkering with his formulas, design and materials to produce the best cabling he can (although his speaker cables have only seen three or four versions in 20 years and A/C cables maybe three versions in 10 years).

We also test other upscale cables to his cables to see how they compare on at least two systems, mine and his. We’ve tried High Fidelity, Magnan, Kimber, Furutech, Nordost, Audioquest (not all of their cables but a selection over the years) as well as others he has tested on his own. He also take his cables to shows and upscale audio systems locally to compare to their current cabling. Never have compared them to Transparent Audio cabling which retails for 50X more for speaker cabling or Masterbuilt at 100X more. I heard them replace Siltech, Triode Wire and Shunyata as well as shows.

I don’t know what the manufacturer finds as far as the three electrical testable variables in his cables before and after he burns them in/tests them. I or the both of us compare the cables at my house and at his factory for a sonic evaluation. I don’t have any other relationship with the manufacturing of the cabling.

nonoise
3,675 posts                                                                       07-29-2018 11:54pm

Works for me. 👍

ME TOO!

prof
1,139 posts                                                                   07-30-2018 12:10am

fleschler,

Right, so you listen to cables. Ok.

I don’t care that a machine will tell me that they all test the same other than for capacitance, inductance or resistance. The manufacturer tests for the basics. What we do is determine if sonically, we prefer the current version or the new version, usually its the current version.

So what puzzle me here is:

If the cables need burn in, how are the manufacturers determining what is causing this phenomenon? As we aren’t talking about magic, presumably manufacturers identify some "pre-burned in" state they can measure, vs post burn in, where the measurements change. Otherwise...how do they know what’s going on at all?

That’s what I’m not seeing yet in this thread, including in your post.

What exactly do you think is technically happening to cables when you "cook" them, and have you, or the manufacturers you work with, any actual data showing these differences?

What exactly do you think is technically happening to cables when you "cook" them, and have you, or the manufacturers you work with, any actual data showing these differences?

Why don’t you take the time and research what may be the reasons. Try looking beyond the wire itself and look at the dielectric used in the construction of the cable.
Could the answer to your questions be there?
How does a signal travel down a wire?

di·e·lec·tricˌdīəˈlektrik/Physicsadjectiveadjective: dielectric

1. 1. having the property of transmitting electric force without conduction; insulating.

nounnoun: dielectric; plural noun: dielectrics

1. 1. a medium or substance that transmits electric force without conduction; an insulator.

Originmid 19th century: from di-3 + electric, literally ‘across which electricity is transmitted (without conduction).’Translate dielectric toUse over time for: dielectric

Not everything can be or is measured using test equipment that exists today. The final test ARC uses for a new piece of equipment is the Warren Test. If it doesn’t pass the Warren Test it goes back out on the bench to find out why.

I would be willing to bet every High-End audio equipment manufacturer uses a Warren Test for the final test of a new piece of audio equipment. Only an idiot would rely on test equipment measurements. Will test equipment measure exactly how equipment will sound to the human ear? NO! Two different manufacturer amps may have the same specs but will they sound the same? NO? WHY NOT? According to the test equipment they should sound identical.

Equipment measurements should always tell us why. REALLY? BS! Can a tube tester tell us why an early 1960s Amperex white label PQ 6922 tube will sound better in a typical preamp that a later 1970s Amperex orange label PQ 6922 tube? The tube tester says both tubes measure the same. Therefore they MUST sound the same.

How about how different tube manufacturers 6922 used in the same preamp sound. If they all measure the same then they must all sound the same. Right? My ears tell me otherwise.

How about capacitors used in the signal path? If the capacitor manufactured by one manufacture is of the same value as another manufacturer’s and measures the same on test equipment then Both will sound exactly the same. Right? The test equipment can’t lie.

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Prof,
Of course, perception is a major component of our extremely subjective hobby. If we all heard the same thing, we would all have the same system. Yes, subtle changes could be attributed to daily nuances in our lives but dramatic changes can not be ignored! Believe what you want, but don't be so pompous as to tell me what I can or can't hear. This is about enjoying the music and sharing our experiences with others. It's not a contest. Happy listening.
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