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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


michaelgreenaudio
glupson
1,794 posts
 
elizabeth,

No need to read 32 pages to find out what High-End Audio means. I asked a few times and never got an answer. I concluded it is a construct to impress and nothing more than that.

Everybody is "walking". And whole idea about "walking" and "not talking" is just, generously called, non-sense.

Will the last one turn the light off here, please?
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
643 posts
 

Yes, I will most certainly flag your post kosst. I recommend that anyone who sees clear abuse of others, be it me or anyone else should be flagged and removed. If you were on TuneLand you would get a warning to be civil like what is expected of any grown person. If you continued you would be banned, which I have a feeling you have been banned before.

Secondly, if you feel the mods are not doing their job, step up to the plate and start your own forum, and set your own rules. Continuingly pouting about you not being able to spread discord is an odd look for a hobby about enjoying music.

Thirdly, I don’t see the hobby of being an audiophile shrinking at all. What we do see shrinking is your particular part of the hobby. You can go about casting doubt on tweaks all you wish but the reality is listeners are and have been "doing" the hobby and exploring every part great or small in an effort to make their system sound the way they want since the beginning of this great hobby. Why that would make you so angry is the mystery here. Like I have said, you probably respond the way you do because that is the type of person you are. As well others happy about the hobby tend to share the joys of tuning their system in.

As others here have said many times over and continue to invite you to join in, we (the hobby) welcome your positive contributions and those of anyone who has actually done and have something to share based on the doing.

Michael Green

kosst_amojan
2,095 posts
 
Mike, you sell cables that could easily burn a house down. I addressed that matter with moderation a short while ago including links to your page. Looking down this thread it looks like you're abusive to others in a thinly veiled passive-aggressive sort of way and I'm most definitely not the only one who thinks so. Your last post demonstrates that. You don't run this place and you run NO risk of seeing me pop up on your forums so don't bother threatening me in some sideways manner. 

As for my doing, I've built or restored everything I'm listening to with the exception of my speakers. Your OP presumes the audience to be rubes and fools because they haven't measured up to your idea of "walking", whatever that is. It's flagrantly insulting. 
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
643 posts
 

Kosst

Can I ask you a question, are you an underwriter? I didn’t think so, because if you were you could have every part you use in your playing around with audio gear tested to see if it has a UL code or rating. It’s not hard to do. The reason why I haven’t responded to your allegations up till now is because I would hope that you would have studied a little more and in time be able to move beyond making uninformed statements.

To start with, I do not sell power cords. I sell power cord kits. No different from you or anyone else walking into Home Depot and purchasing raw parts and taking them home to make something. I believe you said you built an amp once. Did you get that amp UL approved? Of course you didn’t. Any one of the parts inside of your amp could malfunction at any time and start a fire. I don’t see folks here throwing temper tantrums like you do about your tinkering.

Did you know that when anyone makes an electrical tweak to their electronics it voids the underwriting of that product? No, I didn’t think you did. You see Kosst your the perfect example of a talker. Someone who speaks without proper knowledge on a topic. If you look back at my product page you will see that I list 4 types of Bare Essence wire. You will also find that there is a UL on every part. In fact there isn’t a part I use anywhere that has to do with electricity that doesn’t have a UL. Again it’s not that hard to look up a gauge or rating to see what to use with what.

Let me give you another example. Take a simple low grade long extension cord and hook it up to a heavy duty piece of equipment and run it hard. That cord may heat up. Is Kosst camping outside of Walmart protesting? Of course not, no one is there to watch him pump up his chest who would give a rats (A).

Kosst, do a little walking and then come back. All the uberwaltz-s in the world aren’t going to make you look any more knowledgeable. You either know because you have actually studied a topic or you don’t. Trying to say I’m doing something wrong doesn’t really hold much weight, except to those who like you live here to get attention. Some of you folks spend way too much time on these forums and in time they become your only reality. Trust me it shows. You end up showing people you aren’t really in the hobby of advanced listening at all, and you attempt to make the hobby look less important than it is to true music enthusiast. You have lost your way in mediocrity, and instead of congratulating each other when they have done something cool and fun you show your misery and negativity. You know, no matter how much you moan & groan your only appealing to other moaners & groaners. That’s your choice of course to try to make it look like those of us who are actually doing the hobby and enjoying it, and are happy to share it, aren’t for real some how. Your making the hobby fade with every word and you can’t even see it, till it’s gone that is.

Michael Green

inna
5,245 posts
 
Michael, why do I think that you will never fit in here ? If I may, try not be an amateur psychologist and amateur preacher. You are a pro system tuner but you don’t sound like that. State your theoretical foundation and concrete ideas clearly. People will listen, and if some don’t - so what?
As a side note. Your counter-attacks are not convincing, be more precise and ruthless. Then we will know that maybe you really are a good tuner. 
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