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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


michaelgreenaudio
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
643 posts
 

Hi Glupson

For me it depends on the tone of the board, so that means different types of harvesting for different types of wood, but it's all pretty standard with Low Tone Wood. Where it gets tricky is the more dense wood.

When I started grading wood I broke it down in 3 ways, tone, pitch and mass. Tone I use different levels Xtreme Low Tone, Low Tone, Medium Tone, High Tone. Pitch comes next. You almost have to be with me the first couple times testing pitch. Mass is size, density, cut of wood (part of tree) and shape.

There are a few ways to judge a board and there are a couple ways boards are setup when you go to look at them. The first thing I do when going through bunks or stacks is pull the board out from the stack and watch it breathe. If it's a Low Tone I'll be able to see what is going on as soon as I get the board on it's own. Medium Tone and High Tone I have to buy samples and bring them to my drying room.

To make the answer shorter the answer is yes seasons do matter, but I pick wood all year round. I'm more concerned about how it cures more than time of year. I do have my own curing schedule though. About 30% of the wood I buy makes it to an end product. The rest gets used for pulp I use for making my own dope. Some gets scrapped but not much.

Michael Green

michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
643 posts
 

Hi Inna

"Wood is something that is sort of alive"

Interesting you say that because that’s part of our speech when we give tours. "wood never dies"

"everything matters, including how it is dried. Maybe Michael will elaborate."

I have learned so much about curing and voicing I could fill a book and then some. After listening my number two function in life is probably sanding and rubbing and flipping wood. Voicing a piece of wood into a musical instrument is a life long passion, and every time it happens it’s like giving birth to a new creation.

I had a listener here last fall testing out some of my top boards to see which one he liked the best. While he was here I did up a board for him to listen to using instrument finish. I also did up a board using my own body oil. He was blown away by the one I made with my oil in the mix.

My curing space is 650sq feet and all I do in there is cure wood. People are surprised when I give them a demo. I do three types of curing on every board, Sun, Shade and indoor curing. Let me give an example. You guys would think that a piece of redwood sitting in las vegas would get pretty dry right? Well when I bring this wood home from the yard I make it 1/3 the weight bought at the yard. And that’s wood sitting in the desert before I get it. When I’m done doing my method of drying the wood is light as a feather.

Michael


inna
5,245 posts
 
I read about some people in Swiss Alps, near the border with Italy, who make great violins. One of them at particular time of the year chooses the day and a few spruce trees to fell. He selects those trees, who knows how, but he doesn't want to be wrong.
The idea of writing a book, Michael, is I think a good one.
kosst_amojan
2,095 posts
 
MG, 
The F5 is a juiced up Pass design. To be specific, it's a fully complementary. push-pull, 2 stage, FET based amplifier running in full class A idling at 1.42 amp at 32V. The heatsinks are at about 56c idling. It's what class A amps do, especially home brew amps. I run it biased up way past what Nelson sold his F5 at because I know it's going to sit in a temperature controlled room that will never see 76 degrees or more and I don't have to worry about it being stuffed in some guys equipment rack or bookshelf where it can't breath. That's why I'd never build and sell something like that to somebody. That's why I consider it a fire hazard. I used 16 and 14 gauge wire for hookup throughout except for the input where I used solid 26g twisted pair. That thing is built and operating at it's absolute limits for it's environment because I can do it. In all likelihood it'll probably be transplanted into a bigger chassis with much bigger heatsinks so that I can bias it up over 1.5 amp which seems to be the sweet spot from everything I've heard. Much beyond that and distortion doesn't improve much. 
I'm not really sure what I'm going to build next. I'm thinking I might start looking at rebuilding some test equipment. It seems like the next logical step if I want to further analyze and quantify what I'm hearing so that I can make the best judgments about what I like and where to go next.  
kosst_amojan
2,095 posts
 
Glupson,
I don't have a problem with taking risks in principle. I actually prefer risk and volatility to none. I prefer it in my women, my cars, my bikes, and my job. But I don't prescribe it for others because it takes judgement, experience, and skill to properly manage risks and volatility. My mistakes kill people. I probably define "safe" a bit differently than other people. A big part of what I do for a living is trying to avoid making other people pay for their stupid choices with their lives. I do NOT give credit to the general public for recognizing clear and present danger when it's looking right at them. It's for that reason that I wouldn't assume Joe Smoe knows not to draw 15 amp through 20g wire. 
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