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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


michaelgreenaudio
kosst_amojan
2,095 posts
 
MG, 
The F5 is a juiced up Pass design. To be specific, it's a fully complementary. push-pull, 2 stage, FET based amplifier running in full class A idling at 1.42 amp at 32V. The heatsinks are at about 56c idling. It's what class A amps do, especially home brew amps. I run it biased up way past what Nelson sold his F5 at because I know it's going to sit in a temperature controlled room that will never see 76 degrees or more and I don't have to worry about it being stuffed in some guys equipment rack or bookshelf where it can't breath. That's why I'd never build and sell something like that to somebody. That's why I consider it a fire hazard. I used 16 and 14 gauge wire for hookup throughout except for the input where I used solid 26g twisted pair. That thing is built and operating at it's absolute limits for it's environment because I can do it. In all likelihood it'll probably be transplanted into a bigger chassis with much bigger heatsinks so that I can bias it up over 1.5 amp which seems to be the sweet spot from everything I've heard. Much beyond that and distortion doesn't improve much. 
I'm not really sure what I'm going to build next. I'm thinking I might start looking at rebuilding some test equipment. It seems like the next logical step if I want to further analyze and quantify what I'm hearing so that I can make the best judgments about what I like and where to go next.  
kosst_amojan
2,095 posts
 
Glupson,
I don't have a problem with taking risks in principle. I actually prefer risk and volatility to none. I prefer it in my women, my cars, my bikes, and my job. But I don't prescribe it for others because it takes judgement, experience, and skill to properly manage risks and volatility. My mistakes kill people. I probably define "safe" a bit differently than other people. A big part of what I do for a living is trying to avoid making other people pay for their stupid choices with their lives. I do NOT give credit to the general public for recognizing clear and present danger when it's looking right at them. It's for that reason that I wouldn't assume Joe Smoe knows not to draw 15 amp through 20g wire. 
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
643 posts
 

"The F5 is a juiced up Pass design. To be specific, it's a fully complementary. push-pull, 2 stage, FET based amplifier running in full class A idling at 1.42 amp at 32V. The heatsinks are at about 56c idling. It's what class A amps do, especially home brew amps."

Honestly kosst, I kind of doubt Joe Smoe would ever remotely be interested in your self proclaimed risk taking fire hazard, do you? I also think Joe Smoe is smart enough to ask me which products to buy, everyone else does. But for the sake of your peace of mind and effort to save the whales would you prefer me to put a picture up on my website showing one of the bigger gauge strips? I would be willing to do that just for your personal peace of mind. 

Would that make you feel better sir?

Michael Green

geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
14,147 posts
 
glupson
"...saying someone has been selling fire hazards when there has never been even one case..."
This is not that much of a strong supportive statement. Having a nuclear bomb in a backyard would be some sort of a hazard, even when there has never been a one case of it exploding in someone’s backyard.

O..M..G! Wow! Leave to glubson to open with the nuclear bomb ploy. Will these people stop at nothing? What’s next? Oh, don’t tell me! They wouldn’t go THERE, would they? 😩 DON’T DO IT GLUBSON!!

POP QUIZ- how many audiophiles accidentally burned down their house in 2017?

Extra credit: how many audiophiles destroyed their neighborhood with an accidental atomic bomb detonation?
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
14,147 posts
 
One of the more amazing devices ever conceived by audiophile is the rather innocuous inch and a half Mpingo disc, a combo of African rosewood and Mpingo wood with a tiny little surprise in the center. 🤗 Just one Mpingo placed judiciously in a room can transform the sound from bland to grand. 😁 I’m not hot doggin ya! 🌭

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