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The nightmare of the cartridge buyer...

I recently completed a several year quest to acquire a new cartridge. This quest was basically a major PITA and a nightmare!

Why? Well let’s take a look at what will be in store for all cartridge buyers’ in the US...and possibly other countries as well..IF they are seeking a top flite cartridge , like I was.

Firstly, and here’s where a big part of the problem lies: You will typically be unable to audition any cartridge under consideration...certainly not in your own home and more often than not, at your dealers either.

Then we have the fact that these products are closely monitored for who and whom can act as a dealer...which is then severally restricted by territory and distribution. We then add that the pricing is very well controlled...CAN WE SAY PRICE FIXING...which in most states is an illegal practice...but seems to be the rule here.


Let’s begin with my story...and then I am hoping that members will chime in here with their thoughts and probably also their own ’horror stories’....

About three years ago, I decided to acquire a cartridge that would replace my aging but still ok Benz Ruby 2...
I wanted a cartridge that would surpass that Benz in most areas...and one that would be priced at about $3-$5K. A lot of money to be spending on this piece of gear...or so I believed.

At the time, I was considering the following models....Benz LPS MR, Koetsu Urushi and Rosewood Platinum and the Lyra Kleos, Delos, a EMT, the Kiseki Purpleheart, Air Tight ( entry level model at the time..cannot remember what it was called) an Ortofon A90--and a Transfiguration Proteus--lastly one of the ZYX models. After some research, i discovered that the Ortofon’s, the Zyx’s and the Transfigurations wouldn’t work with my set up --due to too low an output by the respective cartridges for my all tube phono stage. So this left the Kiseki, the Koetsu’s, the Lyra’s and the Benz’s...and possibly the Air Tight model.

Circumstances changed and my cartridge buying escapade was put on hold...until a few months back. In the few years since my last foray, I find out that Benz have basically gone out of business ( again!!) and so has Transfiguration. Meanwhile, the Van Den Hul line has come into the US again...this time with a new distributor.
The Zyx line has totally been updated and the Lyra line is now more available than before...at least in theory. The Koetsu are now handled by Music Direct...who have essentially doubled the pricing across the board! Oh, i forgot, the Lyra line has increased by about 25% across the board ( i don’t think inflation can account for this!!)
So where to start auditioning --the answer...nowhere!
Instead I am supposed to rely on various dealers enthusiastic recommendation for these products...except for the fact that one dealer tells me that Koetsu’s are the best thing since mothers milk- and the other tells me that Koetsu’s are horrible with all the faults under the sun...( at least the ones that are in my budget..see above!) Can I hear any of these for myself...either in my system, or at the respective dealers...heck NO! ( and don’t think this type of scenario/ behavior isn’t consistent for other brands as well!--irrespective of whether the dealer(s) carries said brand or not!).

Here I am left with the choice of dropping several thousand dollars on a product that a) has no ability to be heard in my own system..therefore having no clue as to the results that I will get, b) has absolutely no return policy c) can be easily damaged by myself or others in the case of incorrect mounting to the tonearm...and lastly...and this is the one that really annoys me the most: I must shop for these products at a very limited amount of vendors who all are naysaying their competitors and acting extremely unprofessionally in the process. ( Do i really have to talk to the prospective rep for the line in order to determine the compatibility of the cartridge under question with my arm, the reasoning behind the asked price, where the dealer is that should be selling me the piece in question ( so as not to cross territorial lines) and on and on!!)

Then we have this little bonbon...The damn Japanese sourced cartridge(s) is available on several Japanese web sites at a price that is usually 50 -60% of the retail price here in the USA!! And that price in Japan is still at FULL RETAIL! ( Yes, I know it cost a ton of money to ship these things from Japan to here ( since they weigh a ton), LOL).

Where does this leave the US consumer in regards to the acquisition of a top flite cartridge...IMO the answer is between a hard place and a rock..You either pay through the nose and get totally ripped off by the likes of Music Direct and the various small independent reps in the US for these cartridges, or you takes your choice and risk buying from a grey market vendor abroad...but at a fraction of the price! BTW, mysteriously most of the top flite Benz cartridges continue to be very available from a vendor in China who seems to have cornered the market?? What’s up with this??

I can go on and about this journey, as I have just began to scratch the top of the heap in this story, but let’s hear from you guys as to your experiences and thoughts.... Was your top flite  cartridge acquisition an equal nightmare, or was it something else?






128x128daveyf
orpheus10
5,988 posts
 

If you are a music lover, it takes years to choose a cartridge because of the many different personalities of cartridges.

Most of the comments seem to indicate there is some kind of absolute value that can be attributed to cartridges that can be measured on an objective scale.

I wouldn't take anyone's word for "their best cartridge"; they are assuming they're ears like my music, or my ears like they're music, or what kind of music you like doesn't matter. However, there is a method of getting good advice from professional reviewers.

Let's say you are interested in "Koetsu Urishi"; the very first thing you do is find reviews of this cartridge where your favorite music is reviewed.


            https://www.cnet.com/news/insanely-great-phono-cartridge-for-well-heeled-audiophiles/



Based on this review, I would buy this cartridge today if it was in my price range; that's because of the music that was reviewed. Naturally I know a whole lot more than that about Koetsu, but when my favorite music is reviewed, I'm positively sure that I'm at the end of the line in my selection. Of course this is after you have taken into consideration all of the other factors necessary.


daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
1,174 posts
 
@orpheus10 

Sorry, but you would be asking for trouble by doing what you suggest. IMHO, IF you buy a cartridge like a Koetsu on somebody's recommendation or a review ( regardless of the amount of research you have done)-- you are taking a BIG risk. Here's why, you mount the cartridge on your arm, you listen...and oh shoot, the thing sounds like sh---t. what now? Sell it with x number of hours on it at a huge discount, or maybe keep it and start to change out your ancillary gear...in a long and costly voyage to try and get something that will play nice with it? You tell me...



BTW, I still am curious why this one vendor in China seems to have a 'lock' on selling Benz's...and it's not 2juki; although he is on this forum. ( Sells other high end cartridges at considerable discounts too...way less than authorized dealers?). But good luck to you if you buy from him and have a problem! 

@analogluvr 

The Van Den Hul dealers in the US claim that the vendor in the Netherlands is NOT selling you a new Van Den Hul! Instead it is a very used model that has been 'refurbished' and freshened up. The serial number on the box will tell you the age....and the age of these cartridges is anything BUT recent!!
...and of course IF you buy one of these, they are NOT covered under the warranty in the US. ( Therefore NO dealer support).





br3098
660 posts
 
Jeez, what a bunch of whiny b1thches!  You guys need to grow a pair and put on some big boy pants.

I'm not going to defend uber-priced cartridges.  I will say that if you can make a top-flight MC cartridge for less money, please go ahead.  And I won't defend the distributor/dealer system, which certainly contributes to higher prices.  But without it we wouldn't have an expansive audio business in the U.S.  Why do you guys think that distributors exist?  They put up capital (lots of $$$) to have products that you want to buy readily available.  Manufacturers and dealers both rely on distribution for most products, and without a robust distribution network there wouldn't be a retail audio business.

As a former audio dealer myself, I am going to defend dealers.  Why doesn't one of you brave commenters put your time, money and reputation where your mouth (actually, fingers) is/are and become a dealer for, let's say, twenty audio products that would constitute a complete audio system: turntables, tonearms, cartridges, phono stages, preamps, amps and speakers.  Then add (at least) fifty other products that you need to carry in order to complete the sale.  Remember, you will need at least one to show and one to go for each product; probably more.  You have a nice space to demo your gear, right?  And insurance, an advertising/marketing budget and at least one under-compensated employee on salary, right?  And if you are lucky, only every fourth or fifth customer will want to return a brand new product (after you have spent hours demoing the product in your demo room and maybe in the customer's home) just because he decided that he didn't like it after all and the CC company says that he can return anything for any reason within the first 30 (or sometimes 60) days.  So you now have a new product that you have spent what, ten hours or more trying to sell, that you now have to sell as a dealer demo or maybe a used product at par or a loss.

Do you really believe that you will show what anyone would consider a reasonable profit after the first year?  After the second?  Ever?

Audio dealers are not angels and not all dealers are for all buyers.  But before you criticize you should walk a mile in their shoes.  As the guy who has to pay the bills and the salaries of the poor mistreated employees.

daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
1,174 posts
 
@yogiboy 

Looking at the needle doctor return policy that you posted, i noticed some very interesting verbiage about what is excluded...would seem to me to cover cartridges ( they say 'all other one time use products'...is that a cartridge??) Special orders ( probably most Koetsu's etc)  Still risky IMO. Have you, or anybody that you know, actually taken advantage of this policy?
daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
1,174 posts
 
@br3098 
Did you actually read my OP. Seems not, because we are talking about cartridges here and not other gear!

Saying these cartridges are 'readily available' is a joke. Tells me that you haven't been cartridge shopping recently, at least for anything above $500-! 
Plus, the option of hearing the cartridges that I am referring to in the dealers' showroom is basically non existent. So, let's not be calling people a bunch of whiny b1tches if you are clueless about where they are coming from.
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