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The nightmare of the cartridge buyer...

I recently completed a several year quest to acquire a new cartridge. This quest was basically a major PITA and a nightmare!

Why? Well let’s take a look at what will be in store for all cartridge buyers’ in the US...and possibly other countries as well..IF they are seeking a top flite cartridge , like I was.

Firstly, and here’s where a big part of the problem lies: You will typically be unable to audition any cartridge under consideration...certainly not in your own home and more often than not, at your dealers either.

Then we have the fact that these products are closely monitored for who and whom can act as a dealer...which is then severally restricted by territory and distribution. We then add that the pricing is very well controlled...CAN WE SAY PRICE FIXING...which in most states is an illegal practice...but seems to be the rule here.


Let’s begin with my story...and then I am hoping that members will chime in here with their thoughts and probably also their own ’horror stories’....

About three years ago, I decided to acquire a cartridge that would replace my aging but still ok Benz Ruby 2...
I wanted a cartridge that would surpass that Benz in most areas...and one that would be priced at about $3-$5K. A lot of money to be spending on this piece of gear...or so I believed.

At the time, I was considering the following models....Benz LPS MR, Koetsu Urushi and Rosewood Platinum and the Lyra Kleos, Delos, a EMT, the Kiseki Purpleheart, Air Tight ( entry level model at the time..cannot remember what it was called) an Ortofon A90--and a Transfiguration Proteus--lastly one of the ZYX models. After some research, i discovered that the Ortofon’s, the Zyx’s and the Transfigurations wouldn’t work with my set up --due to too low an output by the respective cartridges for my all tube phono stage. So this left the Kiseki, the Koetsu’s, the Lyra’s and the Benz’s...and possibly the Air Tight model.

Circumstances changed and my cartridge buying escapade was put on hold...until a few months back. In the few years since my last foray, I find out that Benz have basically gone out of business ( again!!) and so has Transfiguration. Meanwhile, the Van Den Hul line has come into the US again...this time with a new distributor.
The Zyx line has totally been updated and the Lyra line is now more available than before...at least in theory. The Koetsu are now handled by Music Direct...who have essentially doubled the pricing across the board! Oh, i forgot, the Lyra line has increased by about 25% across the board ( i don’t think inflation can account for this!!)
So where to start auditioning --the answer...nowhere!
Instead I am supposed to rely on various dealers enthusiastic recommendation for these products...except for the fact that one dealer tells me that Koetsu’s are the best thing since mothers milk- and the other tells me that Koetsu’s are horrible with all the faults under the sun...( at least the ones that are in my budget..see above!) Can I hear any of these for myself...either in my system, or at the respective dealers...heck NO! ( and don’t think this type of scenario/ behavior isn’t consistent for other brands as well!--irrespective of whether the dealer(s) carries said brand or not!).

Here I am left with the choice of dropping several thousand dollars on a product that a) has no ability to be heard in my own system..therefore having no clue as to the results that I will get, b) has absolutely no return policy c) can be easily damaged by myself or others in the case of incorrect mounting to the tonearm...and lastly...and this is the one that really annoys me the most: I must shop for these products at a very limited amount of vendors who all are naysaying their competitors and acting extremely unprofessionally in the process. ( Do i really have to talk to the prospective rep for the line in order to determine the compatibility of the cartridge under question with my arm, the reasoning behind the asked price, where the dealer is that should be selling me the piece in question ( so as not to cross territorial lines) and on and on!!)

Then we have this little bonbon...The damn Japanese sourced cartridge(s) is available on several Japanese web sites at a price that is usually 50 -60% of the retail price here in the USA!! And that price in Japan is still at FULL RETAIL! ( Yes, I know it cost a ton of money to ship these things from Japan to here ( since they weigh a ton), LOL).

Where does this leave the US consumer in regards to the acquisition of a top flite cartridge...IMO the answer is between a hard place and a rock..You either pay through the nose and get totally ripped off by the likes of Music Direct and the various small independent reps in the US for these cartridges, or you takes your choice and risk buying from a grey market vendor abroad...but at a fraction of the price! BTW, mysteriously most of the top flite Benz cartridges continue to be very available from a vendor in China who seems to have cornered the market?? What’s up with this??

I can go on and about this journey, as I have just began to scratch the top of the heap in this story, but let’s hear from you guys as to your experiences and thoughts.... Was your top flite  cartridge acquisition an equal nightmare, or was it something else?






daveyf
daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
1,174 posts
 
@tangramca Another post that I totally agree with. The dealers like the current situation with high end cartridges just fine, thank you very much. Why wouldn’t they? After all, no inventory to stock, easy to ship with minimal expense, no return policies, very unlikely repair and after sale hassles, huge margins, probability that the unit will be damaged in the future....how many of the high end cartridges actually come with a stylus guard? --leading to another sale, no easy repair for the consumer...another large profit center; and a simple ordering process for them....

No wonder, IMHO, that there has been some considerable push-back here, and on other threads/forums, when this nice ’golden goose’ has been threatened! Whining, only from people that clearly have something to lose--and that’s become VERY obvious.
larryi
1,972 posts
 
tangramca,

A reasonable approach for the situation mentioned by br3098 is for the customer to agree to pay the going rate for a house call.  In my area, that is $120 to $150 an hour.  So, it would be something like $840 dollars.  If the customer chooses to buy the expensive cartridge, a portion, if not all of that amount could be rebated.  If not, the buyer would be absorbing a painfully high amount, but, it would still be better than paying thousands for a cartridge that is not loved.  Given how much the value of a used cartridge depreciates, that amount is still much less than buying a cartridge and then selling it as used.

Because I have a very good relationship with a couple of local dealers, I got to buy my cartridges with a right to return them if I did not like them.  These were not dealer demonstration cartridges, these where new cartridges ordered for me.  I never returned the cartridges so the dealer did not lose out.  This sort of arrangement is possible if there trust is developed with a dealer.

When I was in the market for a high-end linestage many years ago, I went to a dealer who carried two of the brands I was interested in.  He did not have the flagship models in his store that I wanted to audition.  What he offered was to buy the flagship models of both brands on the promise by me to buy one or the other.  This would work out for him financially.  A dealer gets a substantially lower price for the first purchase of any model of gear from the distributor or manufacturer (this is to encourage purchase of a store demonstration unit).  If I bought one of either models, the cost of both would be covered by the purchase.  As it turned out, I like the first model he got in and bought it, so he never had to order the model from the other brand.  I got a good discount in the deal, even without asking for it.  This is how an arrangement has to be--it has to be financially worthwhile for both parties.
elizabeth
6,726 posts
 
One way to deal with cartridges is buy a new TT each time you need a new cartridge. Sell the old combo off.                   
Whole new thread to whine about not 'just' not being able to try out a cart, but the entire TT/cart combo.          
When I bought ALL of the turntables I own, never heard them, never heard the cartridge. I guess I am just easy to please. Because they all sound great.

br3098
660 posts
 
tangramca, actually I am a former (recovering) dealer.  If I had the answer to your question I would probably still be a dealer today.

In the 1970s and into the 80s there used to be dealers like you describe; I worked for one in the 1970s.  But the high-end audio industry is a very different animal today.  For one thing, much of the product available on the high-end is manufactured on a very small scale - one step away from a cottage industry.  These shops cannot handle dealing with a multitude of dealers, nor are most dealers setup to coordinate with an infinite amount of manufacturers.

Another reason: in the 1970s and 1980s, most audio products were manufactured by large, (mostly) financially secure companies.  Today there is a plethora of products, including well considered high-end products being manufactured in someone's garage.  There's nothing wrong with that, but almost anyone who has attended a major audio show could agree that "are there too many audio products available" is a valid question.

I don't think that the Rolex analogy works well.  Rolex devices are typically sourced through importers (aka distributors), and Rolex doesn't change models or features often.  Also, if Rolex purchased by a shop doesn't sell it can be stored and resold much later at a higher cost as a "classic" product.  Even if a dealer could afford to adopt a buy and hold strategy (almost none can), this has not proved to be largely not true for audio products, with the exception of NOS tubes.

Despite what others think. I'm not defending the current status quo as the best system.  But in reality it's the system we have and I don't believe it's going to change anytime soon.  But as I wrote before, if any of you has a better business plan please put it into motion and let's see how the audio community supports it.  Please advise us when you setup your GoFundMe page.

daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
1,174 posts
 
@br3098 It appears to me that you are constantly confusing the difference between cartridges and other gear. We are ONLY talking about cartridges here...not amps, not digital gear, not speakers etc., All of these items can be easily demo’ed in the consumers system, and returned with no issue if incompatible.
IMO, the Rolex example works reasonably well, because it is a high priced small item, one that has a large margin built in- and one that is also subject to considerable devaluation...( i don’t know what makes you think that all Rolex’s have appreciation, LOL. Next time you buy a Rolex, wear it for a few weeks or months and then see how much your friendly Rolex dealer is willing to give you if you want a return, LMAO) Here’s the difference between a Rolex and a high priced cartridge ( and where the analogy fails,IMO)...you absolutely know what you are getting with a Rolex the minute you try it on ( plus the dealer carries stock of Rolex's...usually!), not so with the various high end cartridges--because trying it on isn’t an OPTION!
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