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The nightmare of the cartridge buyer...

I recently completed a several year quest to acquire a new cartridge. This quest was basically a major PITA and a nightmare!

Why? Well let’s take a look at what will be in store for all cartridge buyers’ in the US...and possibly other countries as well..IF they are seeking a top flite cartridge , like I was.

Firstly, and here’s where a big part of the problem lies: You will typically be unable to audition any cartridge under consideration...certainly not in your own home and more often than not, at your dealers either.

Then we have the fact that these products are closely monitored for who and whom can act as a dealer...which is then severally restricted by territory and distribution. We then add that the pricing is very well controlled...CAN WE SAY PRICE FIXING...which in most states is an illegal practice...but seems to be the rule here.


Let’s begin with my story...and then I am hoping that members will chime in here with their thoughts and probably also their own ’horror stories’....

About three years ago, I decided to acquire a cartridge that would replace my aging but still ok Benz Ruby 2...
I wanted a cartridge that would surpass that Benz in most areas...and one that would be priced at about $3-$5K. A lot of money to be spending on this piece of gear...or so I believed.

At the time, I was considering the following models....Benz LPS MR, Koetsu Urushi and Rosewood Platinum and the Lyra Kleos, Delos, a EMT, the Kiseki Purpleheart, Air Tight ( entry level model at the time..cannot remember what it was called) an Ortofon A90--and a Transfiguration Proteus--lastly one of the ZYX models. After some research, i discovered that the Ortofon’s, the Zyx’s and the Transfigurations wouldn’t work with my set up --due to too low an output by the respective cartridges for my all tube phono stage. So this left the Kiseki, the Koetsu’s, the Lyra’s and the Benz’s...and possibly the Air Tight model.

Circumstances changed and my cartridge buying escapade was put on hold...until a few months back. In the few years since my last foray, I find out that Benz have basically gone out of business ( again!!) and so has Transfiguration. Meanwhile, the Van Den Hul line has come into the US again...this time with a new distributor.
The Zyx line has totally been updated and the Lyra line is now more available than before...at least in theory. The Koetsu are now handled by Music Direct...who have essentially doubled the pricing across the board! Oh, i forgot, the Lyra line has increased by about 25% across the board ( i don’t think inflation can account for this!!)
So where to start auditioning --the answer...nowhere!
Instead I am supposed to rely on various dealers enthusiastic recommendation for these products...except for the fact that one dealer tells me that Koetsu’s are the best thing since mothers milk- and the other tells me that Koetsu’s are horrible with all the faults under the sun...( at least the ones that are in my budget..see above!) Can I hear any of these for myself...either in my system, or at the respective dealers...heck NO! ( and don’t think this type of scenario/ behavior isn’t consistent for other brands as well!--irrespective of whether the dealer(s) carries said brand or not!).

Here I am left with the choice of dropping several thousand dollars on a product that a) has no ability to be heard in my own system..therefore having no clue as to the results that I will get, b) has absolutely no return policy c) can be easily damaged by myself or others in the case of incorrect mounting to the tonearm...and lastly...and this is the one that really annoys me the most: I must shop for these products at a very limited amount of vendors who all are naysaying their competitors and acting extremely unprofessionally in the process. ( Do i really have to talk to the prospective rep for the line in order to determine the compatibility of the cartridge under question with my arm, the reasoning behind the asked price, where the dealer is that should be selling me the piece in question ( so as not to cross territorial lines) and on and on!!)

Then we have this little bonbon...The damn Japanese sourced cartridge(s) is available on several Japanese web sites at a price that is usually 50 -60% of the retail price here in the USA!! And that price in Japan is still at FULL RETAIL! ( Yes, I know it cost a ton of money to ship these things from Japan to here ( since they weigh a ton), LOL).

Where does this leave the US consumer in regards to the acquisition of a top flite cartridge...IMO the answer is between a hard place and a rock..You either pay through the nose and get totally ripped off by the likes of Music Direct and the various small independent reps in the US for these cartridges, or you takes your choice and risk buying from a grey market vendor abroad...but at a fraction of the price! BTW, mysteriously most of the top flite Benz cartridges continue to be very available from a vendor in China who seems to have cornered the market?? What’s up with this??

I can go on and about this journey, as I have just began to scratch the top of the heap in this story, but let’s hear from you guys as to your experiences and thoughts.... Was your top flite  cartridge acquisition an equal nightmare, or was it something else?






128x128daveyf
chakster's avatar
chakster
2,482 posts
 
@daveyf

possibly due to the fact that the old vintage cartridge isn’t allowing for that kind of resolution and transparency!

You must be kidding? They are at least equal (to be politically correct) to everything modern including $3-5K ZYX, Lyra, Ortofon and many other cartridges we have already compared to the best vintage ones. Some of us prefers MM/MI over MC. They are absolutely neutral and frequency response is flat over entire range. Your friend might have a worn/used average cartridge. We’re talking about some exceptionally good vintage cartridges, not about those carts that you can easily buy today, they are rare and people hunting for them. Also can you imagine that vintage cartridge can be NOS (New Old Stock, with intact diamond) ? How can you damage anything with it? Maybe your friend’s knowledge about vintage cartridges is very low, who knows, you never mentioned which particular cartridge are you talking about. Some killer vintage cartridges does not hand made in garage like today’s high-end carts from a very small manufacturers, but they came from industry giants like Technics/Matsishita Victor/JVC, Sony... etc with cost no object budgets utilized unique know-how in their flagship models back in the 70s/80s. The best recording techniques came from the same era, the best analog studio equipment, simply unbeatable til today. Actually some vinyl recorded earlier in the 50s and 60s are superb compared to the modern digital crap. Best studios still using disc cutting lathe machines from the same era! Studio tape machines from that, microphones from that era and many many more equipment. Why do you think a cartridge is an exception? I just don’t get the logic. Maybe it’s not for you personally, but please don’t full people with that crap. Those guys are pretty smart if they know how to sell a $5-20k cartridges today, but do you believe they are so much better, why ? You can comment only after you will compare some of them, but seems like you have another problem (you can’t audition modern high-end cartridges prior to buying, oops).


orpheus10
5,988 posts
 

People on this forum are the most uninformed, self centered people I have ever encountered as a group. Evidently setting up a high end turntable, buying, and installing a cartridge requires more attention than I realized.

If demand was ruled by desire, and the ability to purchase high end audio, there would be very little decline. For a multiplicity of reasons, people can no longer afford high end audio.



        https://hometheaterhifi.com/editorial/decline-high-end-audio-sales-new-outlook/
lewm
6,770 posts
 
I don't necessarily share all of Chakster's adoration of all vintage cartridges over all modern, expensive MCs.  I judge them all separately, and I do find that the old MM and MI types give more bang for the buck as well as more absolute bang, most of the time. Nor do I or Chakster claim that they last "forever".  The point is that a "good" one has no more of a wearing effect on an LP than does a modern, brand new sample, assuming both are properly set up.  (If you disagree, please divulge the scientific basis for your claim.) Do you want to get into a debate over who loves his LPs more, Chakster, Halcro, and I vs you and your friend with the Lyra Atlas? That strikes me as nonproductive.  The fact is your conclusion based on your friend's experience is in error. But the debate about vintage vs new production is really separate from the main subject of your post. 

The fact is, as has been written here before by me and many, many others, the current method of marketing "expensive" cartridges has evolved over 40-50 years due to the nature of the marketplace and the economies associated with running an audio business, either a bricks and mortar type or a mail order type.  And in fact, if you care to look, there are several businesses that WILL allow you to return a cartridge if unharmed and within a specific time window after purchase.  Often, to be accorded such a privilege, you have to be a trusted customer with a good track record.  Robin Wyatt is one who has been mentioned.  I am pretty sure that Mehran, who sells ZYX will do that for folks he knows.  Others have mentioned other companies.  So, let's move on.
tangramca
32 posts
 
@orpheus10 thanks for the link. I have a different take on the state of high end audio that is largely demographic/cultural. First, it is worth pointing out that the article in the link is very US centric. Are we talking about the decline of the high end globally or in the US? I think you would find that the high end continues to thrive in Asia, aided by the growing Chinese middle and upper class.

Regarding the US (or, let’s say, the West). Being an audiophile is a time-consuming affair. Today, people have many more ways to spend their time than in the past. Folks are also leading busier lives leaving less time for hobbies. Ergo, the decline of golf and the ascent of less time intensive endeavours. People still enjoy hobbies but for shorter spurts of time.

Society also suffers from collective ADD, thanks to more options of things to do as well as social media. Even if people had the time to sit and listen for a couple of hours, many people (not just young people!) would have trouble concentrating on listening for any length of time.

Finally, condo living is increasingly prevelant so space is at a premium and neighbors near by. Unless you go the headphone route (which seems to be thriving), condo living isn’t ideal for the audiophile lifestyle, especially the high end. Again, Asia bucks the trend, as it is culturally acceptable for large, expensive systems to occupy prime real estate within tiny apartments. Not so much in the West.

Sorry about going off topic but this trend impacts much of what we have been discussing. If the high end were larger, economy of scales would (potentially) provide for a better buying experience.

@nrenter you make a couple of points I agree with but you do seem to be missing some of what has been recommended as solutions. For example, I think the manufacturer should provide select dealers with demos, with limited financial risk to the dealer. Yes, a house call is ideal but not necessary in many cases. Why would the dealer wait while you tested the cartridge? You have already paid a security deposit equal to the entire value of the cartridge. 

What ideas do you have to improve on the status quo?
orpheus10
5,988 posts
 

Tang, in addition to the economics that were pointed out in the article, there are these;


https://wealthisbeingtranfered.wordpress.com/2012/06/12/wealth-is-being-transferred-from-us-to-them/

Markets were manipulated with corporate money, under the direction of presidential administrations.

Those who know are afraid to speak, and those who speak pay a price.

The CFTC, the agency that has protected us from commodity market manipulation over the years, could not protect us from our own government in the White House. Those excessively high prices for food and gasoline decimated the lower middle class, and it's rippling up to the small business class presently.

When you add up all the economic calamities that affected millions of people all over this country, you can see how they resulted in citizens having less money.

In regard to Asia, the rich got richer, the same as here, but here there was a smaller percent that got richer, but they got incredibly richer, resulting in the "high high high end".



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