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Hear my Cartridges....🎶

Many Forums have a 'Show your Turntables' Thread or 'Show your Cartridges' Thread but that's just 'eye-candy'.... These days, it's possible to see and HEAR your turntables/arms and cartridges via YouTube videos.
Peter Breuninger does it on his AV Showrooms Site and Michael Fremer does it with high-res digital files made from his analogue front ends.
Now Fremer claims that the 'sound' on his high-res digital files captures the complex, ephemeral nuances and differences that he hears directly from the analogue equipment in his room.
That may well be....when he plays it through the rest of his high-end setup 😎
But when I play his files through my humble iMac speakers or even worse.....my iPad speakers.....they sound no more convincing than the YouTube videos produced by Breuninger.
Of course YouTube videos struggle to capture 'soundstage' (side to side and front to back) and obviously can't reproduce the effects of the lowest octaves out of subwoofers.....but.....they can sometimes give a reasonably accurate IMPRESSION of the overall sound of a system.

With that in mind.....see if any of you can distinguish the differences between some of my vintage (and modern) cartridges.
VICTOR X1
This cartridge is the pinnacle of the Victor MM designs and has a Shibata stylus on a beryllium cantilever. Almost impossible to find these days with its original Victor stylus assembly but if you are lucky enough to do so.....be prepared to pay over US$1000.....🤪
VICTOR 4MD-X1
This cartridge is down the ladder from the X1 but still has a Shibata stylus (don't know if the cantilever is beryllium?)
This cartridge was designed for 4-Channel reproduction and so has a wide frequency response 10Hz-60KHz.
Easier to find than the X1 but a lot cheaper (I got this one for US$130).
AUDIO TECHNICA AT ML180 OCC
Top of the line MM cartridge from Audio Technica with Microline Stylus on Gold-Plated Boron Tube cantilever.
Expensive if you can find one....think US$1000.

I will be interested if people can hear any differences in these three vintage MM cartridges....
Then I might post some vintage MMs against vintage and MODERN LOMC cartridges.....🤗
halcro
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,289 posts
 
Glad you like the Thread Harold.....I'll keep them coming as there are many revealing comparisons to be heard 🧐
Halcro, I would gladly see an Ultra 500 in your collection hopefully in some day soon and hear your thoughts about ...

My first Shure was an ML-140HE which impressed me.
Somewhat later I tried a NOS V15 Type III which I didn't think was better than the ML-140HE....
When I tried it with a Jico SAS stylus however........I was mightily impressed 🤯
No hint of `edginess´ and truly a more sophisticated HF presentation with more nuanced and yes a `warmer´ and if you like more `emotional´ (natural) sound. 

Totally agree...
So much so, that it is one of my standard recommendations for anyone thinking of trying vintage MM cartridges.
Because so many were made.......it is very easy to pick up a V15/III body for $200-300 and then add a SAS stylus.
This combination will see off many of the high-priced modern MCs on the market.
If you've heard this combination Harold.....do you think the Ultra 500 will be better....?

Regards
Henry
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,289 posts
 
I think you are right about the sticker on the box Chakster......
I wonder if there is a difference in sound between the Boron tube and the Beryllium cantilever...🤔
My cartridge model preferences have overwhelmingly consisted of those with Beryllium cantilevers.
Because no-one can use Beryllium for their cantilevers
anymore.....modern cartridges just cannot compete IMHO and those who haven't heard vintage models WITH Beryllium.....simply have no idea what they're missing 😛 
lazarus_long
9 posts
 
Listen with headphones on.... as the recording setup is identical for each cart, it is possible to hear differences. This does not mean that it will sound anything like that when you get it home! 
harold-not-the-barrel
799 posts
 
Henry, I haven´t tried a V15/III so far unfortunately but with a modern SAS stylus it would be greater that it originally was. This is not my experience but a friend´s who had the original III, as he wasn´t excited of its high register performance, likewise you discovered.

Can this `newborn´ III outperform the 500... as many audiophiles say the III is better than the IV and the V... Well not really, I´m afraid of. The Ultra series 500 w/ heavy metal body is a very special design and the 400 series also is a different design. And to remind all, to get the best out of MM carts one needs to have the right/most appropriate settings for capacitance and impedance values.
And in general, it´s all about how the music flows... this makes the very best cartridges when the music itself takes over, no listening fatigue you just can´t stop listening your records over and over again.
frogman
4,637 posts
 
Further comparisons would be very interesting.  Thank you, Halcro.

We all have somewhat different ways of describing certain characteristics of sound and it might be beneficial and more meaningful if there were, if not consensus, at least a good understanding of how others use certain terms/descriptions.  Speaking for myself and acknowledging that tonal characteristics do affect our perception of a component’s ability to project the emotion component in music to a degree, I tend to separate that ability from tonal aspects.  What I mean is that I find that a cartridge can be very “warm” and still be emotionally uninvolving, or “lean” and still be very “alive” and involving dynamically.  For me emotional involvement has less to do with ability with tonal issues and more so with dynamics.  A cartridge can be more “linear” and more tonally natural than another, but not as natural dynamically.  If forced to choose I will always choose the component that is more dynamically natural since I find that it is far easier to tweak for tonal naturalness.  

Interesting thread, thanks.
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