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The nightmare of the cartridge buyer...

I recently completed a several year quest to acquire a new cartridge. This quest was basically a major PITA and a nightmare!

Why? Well let’s take a look at what will be in store for all cartridge buyers’ in the US...and possibly other countries as well..IF they are seeking a top flite cartridge , like I was.

Firstly, and here’s where a big part of the problem lies: You will typically be unable to audition any cartridge under consideration...certainly not in your own home and more often than not, at your dealers either.

Then we have the fact that these products are closely monitored for who and whom can act as a dealer...which is then severally restricted by territory and distribution. We then add that the pricing is very well controlled...CAN WE SAY PRICE FIXING...which in most states is an illegal practice...but seems to be the rule here.


Let’s begin with my story...and then I am hoping that members will chime in here with their thoughts and probably also their own ’horror stories’....

About three years ago, I decided to acquire a cartridge that would replace my aging but still ok Benz Ruby 2...
I wanted a cartridge that would surpass that Benz in most areas...and one that would be priced at about $3-$5K. A lot of money to be spending on this piece of gear...or so I believed.

At the time, I was considering the following models....Benz LPS MR, Koetsu Urushi and Rosewood Platinum and the Lyra Kleos, Delos, a EMT, the Kiseki Purpleheart, Air Tight ( entry level model at the time..cannot remember what it was called) an Ortofon A90--and a Transfiguration Proteus--lastly one of the ZYX models. After some research, i discovered that the Ortofon’s, the Zyx’s and the Transfigurations wouldn’t work with my set up --due to too low an output by the respective cartridges for my all tube phono stage. So this left the Kiseki, the Koetsu’s, the Lyra’s and the Benz’s...and possibly the Air Tight model.

Circumstances changed and my cartridge buying escapade was put on hold...until a few months back. In the few years since my last foray, I find out that Benz have basically gone out of business ( again!!) and so has Transfiguration. Meanwhile, the Van Den Hul line has come into the US again...this time with a new distributor.
The Zyx line has totally been updated and the Lyra line is now more available than before...at least in theory. The Koetsu are now handled by Music Direct...who have essentially doubled the pricing across the board! Oh, i forgot, the Lyra line has increased by about 25% across the board ( i don’t think inflation can account for this!!)
So where to start auditioning --the answer...nowhere!
Instead I am supposed to rely on various dealers enthusiastic recommendation for these products...except for the fact that one dealer tells me that Koetsu’s are the best thing since mothers milk- and the other tells me that Koetsu’s are horrible with all the faults under the sun...( at least the ones that are in my budget..see above!) Can I hear any of these for myself...either in my system, or at the respective dealers...heck NO! ( and don’t think this type of scenario/ behavior isn’t consistent for other brands as well!--irrespective of whether the dealer(s) carries said brand or not!).

Here I am left with the choice of dropping several thousand dollars on a product that a) has no ability to be heard in my own system..therefore having no clue as to the results that I will get, b) has absolutely no return policy c) can be easily damaged by myself or others in the case of incorrect mounting to the tonearm...and lastly...and this is the one that really annoys me the most: I must shop for these products at a very limited amount of vendors who all are naysaying their competitors and acting extremely unprofessionally in the process. ( Do i really have to talk to the prospective rep for the line in order to determine the compatibility of the cartridge under question with my arm, the reasoning behind the asked price, where the dealer is that should be selling me the piece in question ( so as not to cross territorial lines) and on and on!!)

Then we have this little bonbon...The damn Japanese sourced cartridge(s) is available on several Japanese web sites at a price that is usually 50 -60% of the retail price here in the USA!! And that price in Japan is still at FULL RETAIL! ( Yes, I know it cost a ton of money to ship these things from Japan to here ( since they weigh a ton), LOL).

Where does this leave the US consumer in regards to the acquisition of a top flite cartridge...IMO the answer is between a hard place and a rock..You either pay through the nose and get totally ripped off by the likes of Music Direct and the various small independent reps in the US for these cartridges, or you takes your choice and risk buying from a grey market vendor abroad...but at a fraction of the price! BTW, mysteriously most of the top flite Benz cartridges continue to be very available from a vendor in China who seems to have cornered the market?? What’s up with this??

I can go on and about this journey, as I have just began to scratch the top of the heap in this story, but let’s hear from you guys as to your experiences and thoughts.... Was your top flite  cartridge acquisition an equal nightmare, or was it something else?






128x128daveyf
daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
1,174 posts
 
Thanks for giving us a heads up about Juki. There are several vendors on eBay and a couple here that are very much grey market. Odd thing is that they seem to have good feedback on ebay, except nothing that relates to cartridge sales! Kron on this site seems to basically have the Benz Micro line sewn up.
Have to wonder how these guys get their supplies, when the regular dealers apparently cannot?
Question becomes if there are counterfeit cartridges on the market? I do know that the rep fronVan Den Hul told me that there is a vendor in the Netherlands who is taking very old Van Den Huls and retipping them and basically re-freshing them. Selling them as more current models than what they are!
lewm
6,770 posts
 
You guys have seen too many James Bond movies.  As against Chakster's experience with 2juki, there are many others who have had good experiences buying from him.  (I purchased a used, vintage tonearm from him, not a cartridge, and I was very pleased with the transaction.) The risk for a new cartridge would be that the distributor in your own country would probably not honor the Japan-only warranty.  Why should he? I am certainly not questioning Chakster's veracity here. I'd like to know more.

I'm not sure where 2juki would get a ZYX cartridge with a "fake" serial number, in the first place, unless the implication is that the cartridge is not new or not what it is labeled as.
solypsa's avatar
solypsa
43 posts
 
Building a great cartridge is hard.
Building a functioning cartridge is less hard.
I'm sure there are counterfeit examples of mega buck carts out there. Not implying anything about any of the vendors mentioned here. 
chakster's avatar
chakster
2,482 posts
 
You guys have seen too many James Bond movies. As against Chakster’s experience with 2juki, there are many others who have had good experiences buying from him. (I purchased a used, vintage tonearm from him, not a cartridge, and I was very pleased with the transaction.) The risk for a new cartridge would be that the distributor in your own country would probably not honor the Japan-only warranty. Why should he? I am certainly not questioning Chakster’s veracity here. I’d like to know more.

Well, used items is another story, no problem with them or with vintage stuff he could sell. But the question is why a brand new ZYX products is cheaper from him than from anybody else? Serial number of the very old ZYX appeared on a brand new ZYX cartridges from Juki. My own brand new ZYX Airy III came with fake serial number. I did not tell about the source when i asked to check serial number with US Distributor and Japanese manufacturer.

I’m not sure where 2juki would get a ZYX cartridge with a "fake" serial number, in the first place, unless the implication is that the cartridge is not new or not what it is labeled as.

Serial number most likely replaced by him or his supplier who would like to remain unknown, this how someone trying to get rid of the overstock by selling products to greymarket dealers (to sell them for much lover price than official price, even with discount). This is a real war between manufacturer/distributor and grey market sellers.

What i can say for sure is that a distributor will be happy to make a discount too, maybe not all of them. And to make a good contact with a honest distributor is much better than with a grey market seller (imo).
hdm
971 posts
 
Chakster: your position on Juki is well known (almost legendary at this stage from being repeated so much here). 

Anyone capable of doing a google search can come up with lots of information on Juki. He's been selling cartridges and other audio related equipment for about 20 years now (possibly longer), has impeccable Ebay feedback and, from what I can see, is not prone to jerking people around or refusing returns. Most of his customers have nothing but positive things to say about him. 

The grey market is the grey market. Your suggestion that similar discounts are going to be available through normal channels is not reasonable; that's how the "normal channels", distributors and retailers, make their money. 

Your point about Juki's sources though is valid and is the topic of discussion in at least one of the threads about Juki if one wants to spend the time online. And it is very possible that those sources, quite very possibly legitimately purchased through the manufacturer or normal distributor channels, but then, for whatever reason needed to liquidate or unload the product and then altered or destroyed serial numbers to protect themselves and their relationship with the manufacturer or regional distributor. 

So it's no surprise that manufacturers and distributors are not big fans of Juki as he's making their life a bit more difficult. From what I can see there is no proof whatsoever of Juki selling used as new or altering serial numbers himself.

It's important that Buyers be aware of the fact that manufacturer's warranty is not going to be available through Juki  or other grey sellers and I think that most who purchase from him are aware of this and I would expect that especially someone who is interested in purchasing a $2000-$5000 cartridge from him at an outrageous discount to retail would likely be aware of this. 

And I'm sure there would be buyers of these cartridges who could care less about the fact that they cannot have the cartridge rebuilt in the future by the manufacturer at a price that grossly exceeds the cost of going to an aftermarket re-builder/retipper, as sacrilegious as that seems to you and many others. Or they can just toss the cartridge at the end of its life or sell it to a guy like me who, if the price is reasonable enough, will send it to an aftermarket retipper.

For those types of Buyers, Juki is simply filling a need that obviously exists in the marketplace. 

I'm curious: did you find out about the serial number on your Zyx before you mounted and used it and approach Juki for a refund/return?
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