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Pre-Amp vs. Integrated...why?

I have been a vinyl listener now for over a year and one concept that escapes me is the "need" for a vinyl pre-amp.

I understand the need if your current amp does not have a Phono input, but if you have an amp that has a phono input, why buy a phono pre-amp to run your TT through?

Is it standard thinking that the integrated Phono input is always substandard to a good phono pre + amp setup?

Are there lines that are drawn so to speak, maybe from a dollar standpoint, that clearly mark the quality in phono stage? (i.e., are cheap $50 pre-amps worse than a $300-$400 integrated or vice versa is a $400 integrated usually going to get crushed by the $500 pre + Amp setup?)

Are there exceptions where a lower cost integrated can hold it's own with Pre and Amp setup?

I am in the process of assembling a second Vinyl listening station in my house and want to start from scratch with new and different equipment. Something different from what I have had over the past year.

Can anybody clarify this or demystify this for me?

My current setup:

-LP120 turntable / AT440MLb cart
-Marantz 2220B Amp
-Infinity RS2000 bookshelf speakers

My future/second setup:

-Amp?
-TT? (I have ideas)
-Elac B6 Debut bookshelf speakers (already have)

Room specs are about 12x12 and this is for vinyl listening only. Other stuff is a bonus but not necessary.
jhamond987
elizabeth
6,726 posts
 
At the op price point there is not a lot of reasons to go separates. However if you run into a good deal on a stand alone phono box would not hurt to acquire it. But no reason to search for one.
Most low cost ’phono’ installed are just a small section of a few parts or just a inexpensive chip. You get what you pay for.. Generally at the low end of the audiophile journey, your money should be blown on speakers.. (self powered ones... ) mostly.
My 2 cents.
roberjerman
2,086 posts
 
Yes, a separate pre/power amp will beat a receiver for SQ! But the sky's the limit for cost! I, however, like and use vintage gear (have a Marantz 2235) - a large collection! Presently using an RGR 4 preamp, GAS Son of Ampzilla and DCM Time Windows (52779, 52780). Total cost: about $800! SQ to die for! Judicious choices of vintage gear can yield outstanding SQ - at affordable cost!
roberjerman
2,086 posts
 
The OP can get a Bellari tube phono stage for $275 (free shipping) and use it into the AUX input on the 2220. EBay seller is "decibelaudio" in Chicago. Superior SQ over the 2220's phono stage! It uses a single dual-triode 12AX7. So easy to experiment with different brands (GE, Sylvania, Mullard, Telefunken ... ).
roberjerman
2,086 posts
 
The nice thing about the Bellari VP130 is that it is USA-made! I have the Bellari SUT for use with my mc cartridges. A quality product at an affordable price!
roberjerman
2,086 posts
 
Another choice for the OP could be the NAD 3020 V2 integrated amp (phono stage, line stage, DAC, Bluetooth-ready). 40 wpc (twice that of the 2220) and pre-out jacks to drive a more powerful amp. Available from many EBay sellers for $400-500. I'd take it any day over the 2220! Time marches on!
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