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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


michaelgreenaudio
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
14,147 posts
 
A lot has already been said about speaker location and room acoustics and why trial and error - move a little, listen a little - is not (rpt not) a particularly effective way to determine the optimum location for speakers in a room. What is needed is a comprehensive method that allows for an on-going room treatment program and the ability to change speaker locations periodically to account for new room acoustics treatment and other changes to the system. That method must work for ANY type or make of speaker in any listening room, with or without room treatment. And that method must also be able to account for improvements to room treatments, equipment changes/mods, tweaks.Trying to determine the ideal speaker locations by trial and error - move a little, listen a little - is like trying to solve a set of n simultaneous equations in n+ x unknowns. The best you can hope for is finding local maximums.

When you Control the Mail you Control Information. - Newman
glupson
1,794 posts
 
You can make all the adjustments you want and reach perfection. Then you are proud and call a few of your friends to hear it. Once they enter the room, your previous adjustments become, for lack of a better word, incorrect. Now, someone could start accounting for that and making suggestions how to set the room up if you are alone, if there is three of you, if one is very skinny and one is "plump" (the word I try to use since Michael Green mentioned it here a few months ago, so well-placed in one funny exchange), and so on. It does not equal "snake oil" but may equal "chasing your tail". In theory, any change in the room will yield difference in sound. In practice, if that bothers you, it is time to take a walk. A real walk, not "walk/talk" kind of walk.
kosst_amojan
2,095 posts
 
I find modestly plump women to be the best compromise between diffusion and absorbtion. Fat men don’t have the curves to diffuse properly and skinny women have small cross-sections and weak absorbtion properties. However, if you have enough skinny women that works well too, and they allow for more granular placement and adjustment. I try to keep 10 or 12 on hand to place in the corners, behind the speakers, and around the wall behind me. If the room is still too reflective, terry cloth robes help. Unlike sweaters (or ugly Christmas sweaters in keeping with the season), robes can be opened and closed both for better sonic and visual properties. Silk and lace seem to have virtually no useful sonic properties, unfortunately.
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
643 posts
 

Merry Christmas Jafant!!

I've been playing "New Riders Of The Purple Sage" all morning.

Merry Christmas Agon!

mg

michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
643 posts
 

Readers

There has been many example threads produced recently that should be looked at as far as "talk but not walk?" that I told you would appear, here is one

http://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/the-invention-of-measurements-and-perception

The question you might want to ask yourselves is "do you want to take advice from this forum"?

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