2. tech-talk
  3. 142183-20253

The invention of measurements and perception

This is going to be pretty airy-fairy. Sorry.

Let’s talk about how measurements get invented, and how this limits us.

One of the great works of engineering, science, and data is finding signals in the noise. What matters? Why? How much?

My background is in computer science, and a little in electrical engineering. So the question of what to measure to make systems (audio and computer) "better" is always on my mind.

What’s often missing in measurements is "pleasure" or "satisfaction."

I believe in math. I believe in statistics, but I also understand the limitations. That is, we can measure an attribute, like "interrupts per second" or "inflamatory markers" or Total Harmonic Distortion plus noise (THD+N)

However, measuring them, and understanding outcome and desirability are VERY different. Those companies who can do this excel at creating business value. For instance, like it or not, Bose and Harman excel (in their own ways) at finding this out. What some one will pay for, vs. how low a distortion figure is measured is VERY different.

What is my point?

Specs are good, I like specs, I like measurements, and they keep makers from cheating (more or less) but there must be a link between measurements and listener preferences before we can attribute desirability, listener preference, or economic viability.

What is that link? That link is you. That link is you listening in a chair, free of ideas like price, reviews or buzz. That link is you listening for no one but yourself and buying what you want to listen to the most.

E
erik_squires
jea48
2,944 posts
 
#3

If you are a hoarder and the room you listen to music is full of piles of newspapers, then yes, removing the newspapers will make an audible difference in what you hear from the music you are listening to. For one thing it will sound louder.



.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
14,147 posts
 
A hoarder? You mean like someone who has 3,000 CDs and or 10,000 LPs? 😛
jea48
2,944 posts
 
If the 10,000 LPs are not stored in built-in wood cabinets with closed doors in the same room as the audio system then, yes, you should remove the LPs from the room.

As for 3,000 CDs I would think it would depend where there are located in regards to the fronts of the speakers and if the CDs are out in the open or housed/stored in a wood cabinet.

YMMV.


As for the LPs the  difference in before and after removal of SPL surely could be measured using an SPL meter.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
14,147 posts
 
Jea48, No matter how you store them taking CDs or LPs out of the house improves the sound. Quite a bit, actually. Very shocking. What does that Mean? It means CDs and LPs are bad for the sound. Is that ironic? Yes. Is that a contradiction? Not really. But it has nothing to do with resonance or damping or any such thing. The better sound was in the room before, you just couldn’t hear it properly or completely. Of course, we don’t want to talk about this sort of thing too much. 😛 in any case, you would almost certainly be unable to measure any differences with an SPL meter .....or anything else. You can’t fool Mother Nature. That’s why I oft say perception of sound doesn’t necessarily lend itself to measurement. And when I use that term perception of sound I use it synonymously with hearing. There’s no difference. It’s all hearing.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
14,147 posts
 
Addendum, just to drive the point home a little bit more, taking CDs, LPs, newspapers, books - any media - completely out of the dwelling restores the TV picture quality to what it is supposed to be - noiseless, without grain, with solid and saturated colors. I.e., all senses are affected, not just the sense of hearing by deep sixing the media. The superb TV picture was there the whole time but you couldn’t see it properly because of the “noise” produced in your brain by the aforementioned media. The more CDs or LPs you have the deeper the hole you’ve dug for yourself. I hate to be the bearer of bad gnus. 🐂 🐂 🐂
More to discover