2. cables
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Why Power Cables Affect Sound

I just bought a new CD player and was underwhelmed with it compared to my cheaper, lower quality CD player. That’s when it hit me that my cheaper CD player is using an upgraded power cable. When I put an upgraded power cable on my new CD player, the sound was instantly transformed: the treble was tamed, the music was more dynamic and lifelike, and overall more musical. 

This got me thinking as to how in the world a power cable can affect sound. I want to hear all of your ideas. Here’s one of my ideas:

I have heard from many sources that a good power cable is made of multiple gauge conductors from large gauge to small gauge. The electrons in a power cable are like a train with each electron acting as a train car. When a treble note is played, for example, the small gauge wires can react quickly because that “train” has much less mass than a large gauge conductor. If you only had one large gauge conductor, you would need to accelerate a very large train for a small, quick treble note, and this leads to poor dynamics. A similar analogy might be water in a pipe. A small pipe can react much quicker to higher frequencies than a large pipe due to the decreased mass/momentum of the water in the pipe. 

That’s one of my ideas. Now I want to hear your thoughts and have a general discussion of why power cables matter. 

If you don’t think power cables matter at all, please refrain from derailing the conversation with antagonism. There a time and place for that but not in this thread please. 
mkgus
jea48
2,944 posts
 
@ mzkmxcv



jea482,855 posts01-13-2019 10:54am


 mzkmxcv337 posts01-13-2019 10:42am




@jea48

Are you unaware that overtones are harmonics?

As for interconnects, as long as they are well enough shielded, then yes (at least in regards to audible changes).

@mzkmxcv

Harmonics? Yeah, I am aware of Harmonics. Can they pass through the windings of a power transformer of a piece of audio equipment? Can they be radiated? How far?


Again, Can they pass through the windings of a power transformer of a piece of audio equipment? Can they be radiated? How far?

Specifically the harmonics created by,
A light dimmer.
Harmonics created by a switch mode power supply?
Harmonics created by a full wave bridge rectifier found in the power supply of audio equipment?
.
mzkmxcv
558 posts
 
@jea48

Any decent amp/DAC/pre will not allow any distortion from your other appliances to affect your gear, unless talking ground loops.

Stereophile (among other resources of course) has measured hundreds/thousands of pieces of equipment other than speakers, and most all preform to spec, and JA isn’t using any $5000 power cords, and he lives in a NY apartment/housing complex if I’m not mistaken. Are you saying you can get better than advertised specs if you upgrade the power cords?

PS Audio sells “high end” power cords, and even he basically said, in his rebuttal to null tests, that their only real benefit is better shielding for EMI, if you look at the measurements of their M700, BHK 300, DirectStream DAC, etc., I would like to see which graph/spec would be improved by using not the standard cord it came with, but the higher end ones they, or other companies, sell, disregarding EMI.
jea48
2,944 posts
 

mzkmxcv346 posts01-14-2019 6:19am

Thanks for the response.

Timbre

Timbre is harmonics (overtones), this is easily seen by inputting a signal and seeing what the FFT/distortion graph looks like. I personally believe that no gear should have timbre, it should only be transparent and accurately reproduce the timbre of the instruments in the recording. Of course most speakers have timbre, but any expensive solid-state amp, DAC, or preamp that is competent will not have audible distortion/timbre.



@mzkmxcv

Definition of Timbre.

tim·​bre | ˈtam-bər, ˈtim-;ˈtam(brᵊ) variants: or less commonly timber Definition of timbre

: the quality given to a sound by its overtones: such as

a : the resonance by which the ear recognizes and identifies a voiced speech sound

b : the quality of tone distinctive of a particular singing voice or musical instrument

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/timbre




noun
  1. Acoustics , Phonetics . the characteristic quality of a sound, independent of pitch and loudness, from which its source or manner of production can be inferred. Timbre depends on the relative strengths of the components of different frequencies, which are determined by resonance.
  2. Music . the characteristic quality of sound produced by a particular instrument or voice; tone color.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/timbre


Quality of a sound.

Can one manufacturer’s microphone reproduce the sound of Jennifer Warnes singing into it differently than another manufacturer’s microphone? What test equipment is used to determine which microphone more accurately reproduces Warnes’ voice?

What baseline is used for the test equipment? In other words, what piece of test equipment was used first to capture the quality, Timbre, of Warnes’ voice as she was singing into the two microphones?

Would you agree with this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=144QVYv__S4


Though here is a manufacturer’s video, would you disagree with what is said on the video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLoM9bBr8lc

.

jea48
2,944 posts
 
mzkmxcv348 posts01-14-2019 9:59am@jea48

Any decent amp/DAC/pre will not allow any distortion from your other appliances to affect your gear, unless talking ground loops.

Stereophile (among other resources of course) has measured hundreds/thousands of pieces of equipment other than speakers, and most all preform to spec, and JA isn’t using any $5000 power cords, and he lives in a NY apartment/housing complex if I’m not mistaken. Are you saying you can get better than advertised specs if you upgrade the power cords?

PS Audio sells “high end” power cords, and even he basically said, in his rebuttal to null tests, that their only real benefit is better shielding for EMI, if you look at the measurements of their M700, BHK 300, DirectStream DAC, etc., I would like to see which graph/spec would be improved by using not the standard cord it came with, but the higher end ones they, or other companies, sell, disregarding EMI.

You didn’t answer my questions......

Again, Can they, (harmonics), pass through the windings of a power transformer of a piece of audio equipment? Can they be radiated? How far?

Specifically the harmonics created by,
A light dimmer.
Harmonics created by a switch mode power supply?
Harmonics created by a full wave bridge rectifier found in the power supply of audio equipment?
mzkmxcv
558 posts
 
@jea48

Both videos state it’s the harmonics, so not sure your point.

As for microphones, are you stating you are choosing your gear to make up the deficiencies in the recorded track? If so, that’s the first I’ve heard of that rebuttal for not getting the most transparent gear (other than plain preference). And, that’s simply flawed as the mics used are not the same, so you are just chasing an imaginary problem.

Measuring the accuracy of mics is easy. Put out a signal and see what the mic recorded. My measurement mic for doing DSP for instance came with an individual/unique calibration file to make sure it’s accurate.

Of course a $500 mic will be “cleaner” than a $5 mic, but don’t think that changing power cords or interconnects or speaker wire will negate any deficiencies of the microphone used in the recording. 
 
I also very clearly answered your question, unless talking ground loops, your power amp will not be affected by a light dimmer switch or your neighbor’s refrigerator. 
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