2. tech-talk
  3. 142183-20253

The invention of measurements and perception

This is going to be pretty airy-fairy. Sorry.

Let’s talk about how measurements get invented, and how this limits us.

One of the great works of engineering, science, and data is finding signals in the noise. What matters? Why? How much?

My background is in computer science, and a little in electrical engineering. So the question of what to measure to make systems (audio and computer) "better" is always on my mind.

What’s often missing in measurements is "pleasure" or "satisfaction."

I believe in math. I believe in statistics, but I also understand the limitations. That is, we can measure an attribute, like "interrupts per second" or "inflamatory markers" or Total Harmonic Distortion plus noise (THD+N)

However, measuring them, and understanding outcome and desirability are VERY different. Those companies who can do this excel at creating business value. For instance, like it or not, Bose and Harman excel (in their own ways) at finding this out. What some one will pay for, vs. how low a distortion figure is measured is VERY different.

What is my point?

Specs are good, I like specs, I like measurements, and they keep makers from cheating (more or less) but there must be a link between measurements and listener preferences before we can attribute desirability, listener preference, or economic viability.

What is that link? That link is you. That link is you listening in a chair, free of ideas like price, reviews or buzz. That link is you listening for no one but yourself and buying what you want to listen to the most.

E
erik_squires
erik_squires OP
5,268 posts
 
Thank you for the kind words.


quality associated with it.



Clearly, these numbers represent specific physical things. What i meant was, is 4 Volts warm? Is 0.8A precise imaging? Do 30 watts sound hard?

Inventing a measure, such as your cholesterol level, is not yet the same as being able to ascribe a quality or desirability to it. Now we clearly use certain limits to describe healthy, at risk, and unhealthy cholesterol levels, but that did not just come into being the moment the cholesterol could be measured. That took a lot more work.

Best,
E
kosst_amojan
2,095 posts
 
In the strictest scientific sense, there is no such thing as music, or sound, or color, or hot or cold, or pain or pleasure. They're abstractions produced by the brain to allow consciousness to interpret them. There can be made correlations between quantifiable phenomenon, but there's no direct causal link between the phenomenon and the abstraction of conscious experience. Likewise, the quantifiable conscious experience doesn't directly correlate with the quantified physical phenomenon, only indirectly. The indirect nature of correlation leaves two questions to be asked. What is the nature of the correlation? And, what is the quantifiable value of the conscious experience. Those two questions need some sort of answer before the question of quantifiable measurement can take on any sort of meaning. 
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
14,147 posts
 
Well, of course nothing would exist if you were not here. That’s pretty obviously. On the other hand people see reality differently. While people may sometimes agree on what that reality is, especially for subjective reality like hearing and vision, they oft disagree. When I visit hither thither and yon and listen to people’s systems, or I’m going around to bug systems at shows, I’m oft tempted to say something unkind as regards the sound quality. Usually I hold my tongue or bite my tongue. 😛 I must hear things they don’t.  I know I see things they don’t. I find that audiophiles as a general rule are 1) very high on the sound of their own systems and 2) get quite offended at any suggestion that their system sound is in any way lacking. So, sometimes silence is golden.
erik_squires OP
5,268 posts
 
Those two questions need some sort of answer before the question of quantifiable measurement can take on any sort of meaning.



Exactly, which brings me back to my original thesis: A measurement alone has no meaning until we have given it one.
Post removed 
More to discover