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Class D is affordable and sounds as good or better the SS/Valve why buy anything else ?

I have spent a fair amount of my hard earned money on big ticket brand new SS and VT/Valve amplifiers over the years without hesitation, with state of the art 2019 class D amplifiers becoming cheaper and sounding better, i wouldn't join in again.

For older technology amplifiers SS VT/Valve to compete with State of the art class D, Their prices are going up and up.

One example is Pilium Audio from Greece or Bulgaria their Divine Line the prices are all over £100,000 for their pre amps and power amps, I know the UK importer he said they sound OK,

Another example FM Acoustics again up to and over £100,000 for pre and power amps. i have owned FM Acoustics pre and power again their OK,

I am not saying they do not sound good, i am saying why spend this much when state of the art class D probably sounds as good now and can only improve with the GaN capacitors and is nearly up to 100 times cheaper.

Is there still a market for multi thousand £$s SS or VT/Valve amplifiers ?

When class D finally overtakes SS VT/Valves what will people do with their multi thousand £$ amplifiers, keep them knowing there is something better ? Or will we see the market flood with exotic used amplifiers ?

Digital technology is rapidly growing pace and becoming cheaper, with GaN capacitors being introduced the sound is going to get better and better and will slowly or quickly become even more affordable.

If you had 50,000 to spend on an Amplifier, would you buy a high ticket SS amplifier and hope for the best ?

Would you stay safe and go with high ticket valve amp, class D can never match good valves right ?

Or would you sit tight and see how the GaN capacitors can further improve the performance of state of the art class D ?

Please feel free to join in, everybody is welcome, i think its a very delicate/touchy discussion for some people with big bucks invested in older type amplifiers.
townshend-audio
lhasaguy's avatar
lhasaguy
95 posts
 
Have any of you followed the journey of WCSS through a myriad of amplifiers, speakers, DAC, cables, etc. over the past couple if years?

We are talking serious high end gear.  He is not affiliated with any MFG or single type of gear, but rather evaluating some of the best available.

Class D is not at the forefront from a listening perspective.  There is a reason.

Trying to diminish others to make your favorite look better is never a good way to make converts.  The inherent bias is obvious and this perspective does not forward your cause.

Remember how cassettes were going to make records obsolete?   Vinyl is still with us.  There is room for all, trumpeting we are best  and you are toast is a poor method of supporting what you like, just MHO.
miveraaudio
111 posts
 
It all depends on what you consider the role of an amplifier should be in a system. To faithfully amplify the signal it’s fed, or to add euphonic coloration, and amplify the signal it’s fed. If you enjoy the sound of your source gear as it is, then all you should want is an amplifier that faithfully amplifies the signal it’s fed. If you don’t like the sound of your source gear as it is, then you may want to add some colorations to mask the undesirable sound. Today’s best class D amps are not designed to add euphoric colorations. So to really appreciate them, you have to like the sound of your source gear.

But the problem comes because so many audiophiles have no idea how their source gear sounds. Because they have only ever listened to it through a coloured amp. So when an uncoloured amp replaces the coloured amp in their system, and they hear for the first time the actual sound of their source gear, some may not like what they hear. But do you think the blame ever goes to the source gear? Very rarely. The amps end up taking the blame for the shortcomings of the source.

This is one reason why I have gone away from analog input amplifiers. It’s too easy to get poor sound with a good amplifier. Because you have no control as a manufacturer to choose what the amplifier is fed, once in the hands of the end user. So most manufacturers end up having to sacrifice fidelity, to make up for the crappy source gear many people have.

Icepower did a pretty good job at voicing the 1200AS to make it a bit more forgiving than the Ncore amps. But they are still highly resolving amps that are only limited by the source they are fed.
jetter
1,035 posts
 
miveraaudio, your post is very interesting, thanks for writing it.  To agree with it one needs to buy into the concept that analog amplifiers are colored and that class D are not.  I believe that this part of your discussion is open to argument. 
miveraaudio
111 posts
 
It’s just not black and white like that. These colorations are purposely built into amplifiers to make them more forgiving. This is a strategy that is constantly done with class D amplifiers as well with different input buffers. Even if it drastically reduces the fidelity. Take the PS Audio Stellar 700 amps for example. The stock 700AS modules they use have a dynamic range of 117db. but after PS Audio put’s their magic "Analog cell" input buffer in front of them, it drops 17db down to 100. Why do they do this? To make it more forgiving with the source gear that will likely get paired with an amp at that price point. Well and also because the 700AS modules aren’t that great. They still use circa 2004 ICCX technology.

The point I was making is if your goal is extreme fidelity, it’s easy to achieve for cheap with the latest and best class D. Or you could go for something like an $80000 Solution and achieve it with class A as well.

I can assure you if you paired a Solution amp with the cheap DAC’s and preamps most people who criticize class D, listen to class D amps through, they would probably say the Solution sucks as well.

The price/performance of class D is so much higher than the rest of the audio gear in most peoples systems these days. So the best class D amps aren’t getting the same input quality as an amp like an $80000 Solution would get. Put an Icepower 1200AS based amp into a $200000 rig and then peoples eyes will open.
townshend-audio's avatar
townshend-audio OP
49 posts
 
I would like to state i am currently enjoying my music collection using class D with passive pre amp, the combination cost is approx 4500 gbp which i feel with this level of performance is exceptional, i am very happy and have no interest in changing to find out if i can match performance with similar priced SS or valves, obviously great valves are great valves and great SS is great SS but the question is at what prices are they great and can they compete with what i am hearing. 
Its not just amplifiers i am in the process of buying a DAC, the one i am drawn to is the PS Audio Direct Stream quoting 20 x DSD, on paper that seems extraordinary if i have read that right.
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