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Why do intelligent people deny audio differences?

In my years of audiophilia I have crossed swords with my brother many times regarding that which is real, and not real, in terms of differeces heard and imagined.
He holds a Masters Degree in Education, self taught himself regarding computers, enough to become the MIS Director for a school system, and early in life actually self taught himself to arrange music, from existing compositions, yet he denys that any differece exists in the 'sound' of cables--to clarify, he denies that anyone can hear a difference in an ABX comparison.
Recently I mentioned that I was considering buying a new Lexicon, when a friend told me about the Exemplar, a tube modified Dennon CD player of the highest repute, video wise, which is arguably one of the finest sounding players around.
When I told him of this, here was his response:
"Happily I have never heard a CD player with "grainy sound" and, you know me, I would never buy anything that I felt might be potentially degraded by or at least made unnecessarily complex and unreliable by adding tubes."

Here is the rub, when cd players frist came out, I owned a store, and was a vinyl devotee, as that's all there was, and he saw digital as the panacea for great change; "It is perfect, it's simply a perfect transfer, ones and zero's there is no margin for error," or words to that effect.
When I heard the first digital, I was appalled by its sterility and what "I" call 'grainy' sound. Think of the difference in cd now versus circa 1984. He, as you can read above resists the notion that this is a possibility.
We are at constant loggerheads as to what is real and imagined, regarding audio, with him on the 'if it hasn't been measured, there's no difference', side of the equation.
Of course I exaggerate, but just the other day he said, and this is virtually a quote, "Amplifiers above about a thousand dollars don't have ANY qualitative sound differences." Of course at the time I had Halcro sitting in my living room and was properly offended and indignant.
Sibling rivalry? That is the obvious here, but this really 'rubs my rhubarb', as Jack Nicholson said in Batman.
Unless I am delusional, there are gargantual differences, good and bad, in audio gear. Yet he steadfastly sticks to his 'touch it, taste it, feel it' dogma.
Am I losing it or is he just hard headed, (more than me)?
What, other than, "I only buy it for myself," is the answer to people like this? (OR maybe US, me and you other audio sickies out there who spend thousands on minute differences?
Let's hear both sides, and let the mud slinging begin!
lrsky
tbg
5,263 posts
 
Mrtennis, I think we start testing hypotheses from birth, and we use our senses. In my methods courses, I would pick a member of the Corp (those in the ROTC) and ask him to stand in the small room and then to turn in a direction where there was a wall after about 20 feet. I told him to walk slowly. He would stop short of the wall, and I would ask why he stopped. He would say because there is a wall. I said I didn't understand, and he would say because I cannot walk through a wall. I would then say why not? He would look at me as though I was crazy. I would then ask him to come forward and turn so as to walk into the door. I would again ask him to walk and to continue until I said stop. He did and opened the door. I would ask why did you do that, and he would reply that is the only way he could continue to walk.

Obviously, kids learn all of this early plus more and do so by hypothesis testing, including walking into space at a stairway, if parents aren't cautious.

Obviously, observations are not convincing to others but are most convincing to the person experiencing them.

The real question in all of these questions about intersubjectively transmittable data is whether one with the experiences gives a damn whether others are convinced. In science, obviously we have to convince others, but is buying audio components a science? Is it even a science for manufacturers. Even were they to have the best "evidence" that their speaker is the best, if buyers didn't like what they heard, he would go out of business.
mrtennis
3,295 posts
 
hi tbg:

i agree with you as to the perceiver of sound.

however the question asked ls "why do intelligent people deny audio differences?"

the simple answer is variations in perception.

if three people witness an accident and there two distinct versions of the accident , which is factual ?

perception of audio differences is not factual, it is opinion based.

i would like to compare the difference between the definition of fact and opinion. i believe both are based upon probability , as are perceptions of audio differences.

we are dealing with stochastic processes not certainty, in the realm of perception of sound. there is no way to determine the truth of audio perceptions.
tbg
5,263 posts
 
Mrtennis, you ask, "why do intelligent people deny audio differences?" I guess the adjective need not be included, but this is the real question. I have never understood why anyone would want to seek to convince others that there are no audio differences. It is much like saying the Sun doesn't rise and set. If they want to think that others are delusional and that turns them on, fine. But they should expect no one gives a s... what they think.

No one has appointed any scam police, I hope. I make my choices by listening. I certainly am interested in why some speakers, wires, components, etc. sound better, but that is after I have been impressed.

Were someone to find a variable that predicts individual's preferences that I think validly captures the truth, I would be interested in critiquing their work and might find it useful. But were this merely that people prefer expensive equipment with bells and whistles, I would be indifferent. Were we to have a valid measure of quality of music reproduction and could find correlates that allow prediction of such quality, I would love it, were it not just price makes for higher quality.
mrtennis
3,295 posts
 
yes, there are probably people who try to convince others that there are no differences with respect to many of life experiences, in addition to audio.

however, the issue here is denying differnces when someone else reports them. it may not be an agenda to convince people that all amps, or preamps, etc. sound the same, but simply variations in brain--nervous system, and attitudes, rather than an intention to foist an opinion.

here is another example. two people go to the same restaurant and sample two versions of the same dish, e.g., veal marsala. one may not perceive the difference because of lack of discrimination, rather than a conscious attempt to convince the other that all veal marsala preparations taste the same.

there are always differences in opinion about many things, and i would always assume that there are no hidden agendas, but just honest differences in perception. of course there are biases of a personal nature, but perhaps these biases don't operate to try to change opinions but govern only one's personal conduct, or attitudes.

tbg, your perspicacousness is very impressive. you sound like a very bright person. i think i would have enjoyed being one of your students.
tbg
5,263 posts
 
Mrtennis, thanks. I spent most of my career teaching research methods to grad. and undergrad. students. One of the key issues, especially in the social sciences is finding valid measures to allow testing of hypotheses. I amazes me how difficult it is for many to grasp this.

Your choice of the word indicates I'm certainly not alone.
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