TRL Marantz Sa-14

Sbayne: I've owned various Tube Research Labs amps and preamps since the early 90's. Every one of them has taken a while to break in, so it is common for their products.

TVAD: Most folks don't have memory lapses that prohibit them from remembering how a component sounded a few weeks back. Then again, maybe some guys "experimented" too much with mind altering drugs ... :)

Jack

Jack wrote:

Most folks don't have memory lapses that prohibit them from remembering how a component sounded a few weeks back.

This is an interesting topic that deserves some serious attention, and I hope I can effectively present my thoughts here without sounding argumentitive.

I really wonder how anyone can make a definitive comparison between Sound A and Sound B several weeks after initially hearing Sound A. After all, the changes that occur during break-in happen incrementally, and the listener experiences them in small increments over extended periods of time that would, it seems to me, make the perception of these changes nearly impossible. I certainly don't have any scientific evidence to support either side of the debate, but I suppose I side with those who attribute some of the perceived changes to a listener's acclimation to the sound of gear over time in addition to actual measurable changes in the electronics. Then again, many folks claim to hear a point during the process that is essentially an "Ah-Ha!" moment at which a clear change becomes apparent.

Like most things in life, there is most certainly a murky point in the mist where both sides meet, but can seldom, if ever, be identified.

You are misunderstanding my question. I know TRL mods take up to 500 hours to break-in: but why? Other mods I have had done by companies such as Musical Concepts and SACDMods didn't take that long. I am guessing TRL uses special solder or leads that require the long break-in.

TVAD: For me, I have several test discs that I know very well, having been present during the actual event. (Although being there is not a criteria, in my opinion, to knowing a disc well). I hear how the player distinguishes minute details and store them away in my memory.

For example, Lkdog has mentioned to me (and I concur) that since he has his SA-14 back from TRL (with their free updates) that he is hearing details that went un-noticed before ... that he is re-listening to his entire library of music, finding new details that were previously masked or blurred. As I stated above, I'm experiencing the same thing. Even old discs like Trio Jeepy have startling new details that I've never heard before and have a spooky realistic feel (and sound) to them.

This said, there is something to what we are both noticing and it has to do with our memory of these discs, some that we've been familiar with over a decade. I don't see Lkdog or I as "Supermen", nor am I directly questioning your cognitive powers or hearing acuity. I do know what I hear and what I remember, and I don't mind sharing my first hand experience to those here ... in the TRL SA-14 thread.

Sbayne, I understand your question completely. You want someone to give you a scientific/engineering explanation as to why TRL modded machines take 500 hours to break in versus the quicker break-in time of other modded machines.

I was offering a different perspective on the question. I'm not convinced the 500 hours is empirically justified. Couldn't it be somewhere between, say, 321-545 hours (replace with numbers of your choice)? And, isn't it possible that break-in effects are as much a part of our psychological desire and expectation to hear a difference? If the magic number is supposed to be 500 hours, then that's when the timer goes off in our heads. "Eureka! I hear it!" And, if we don't hear any difference at the 500 hour mark, have we failed? And if so, can we ever admit it in public?

You see my point?

Anyway, sorry for diverting your quest for an answer. Perhaps Jack or one of the folks at TRL might offer an explanation...