Yes Bruce and Al, I'm trying to find a Phase Angle graph on the OP's Ethos to see if they are even worse for an amp to look at than just the impedance graph shows they are.
Cheers George
Best tube amp for electrostatic speakers
For over 35 years I've almost exclusively used either ribbons or electrostats with solid state amplification and have been generally happy with the sound. Over the last several years, though, my hearing has become somewhat degraded and more sensitive to certain frequencies. The frequencies which seem to cause the most discomfort occur in the 1400 to 1900Hz range and come across as "bright" to my hearing. After researching this matter and having been given some expert advice, I've decided to pursue the idea of replacing my present amplification equipment with tube based gear.
The purpose of this post, then, is to solicit advice regarding the best approach to making this decision based on the following information: the current basic equipment is Shanling Solid state CD player, Peachtree Audio Nova used as preamp, two DBX 1531 EQ's to help compensate for age related hearing loss, Peachtree 220 amp, Silversonic T114 cable and Martin Logan Ethos speakers.
The listening area is our living room measuring 15 by 22 feet with my listening position 16 feet from the plane of the 2 speakers which are positioned 11 feet apart measured center to center. Located between the 2 speakers is an entertainment center which is about 9 feet wide. My listening interests are varied from solo guitar and light jazz to occasional orchestral music. I don't generally listen at high volumes and am not particularly interested in strong bass except for the rare action movie background.
Unless not advisable for some reason, I would like to keep the Peachtree Nova as a preamp because of the significant latitude for source connection and what seems to have a decent internal DAC. If this option would substantially defeat the purpose of the intended modification I would work around it. I can no longer deal with sounds that are "bright" which I now find uncomfortable but detailed sound is very important.
So, the questions are: is the move to tubes the best option and, if so, what might be some reasonably priced amps that could accomplish the goal. This, of course, would take into consideration room size, etc. for determining power requirements. If there are other more practical and less expensive options to consider, I would appreciate that advice as well.
The purpose of this post, then, is to solicit advice regarding the best approach to making this decision based on the following information: the current basic equipment is Shanling Solid state CD player, Peachtree Audio Nova used as preamp, two DBX 1531 EQ's to help compensate for age related hearing loss, Peachtree 220 amp, Silversonic T114 cable and Martin Logan Ethos speakers.
The listening area is our living room measuring 15 by 22 feet with my listening position 16 feet from the plane of the 2 speakers which are positioned 11 feet apart measured center to center. Located between the 2 speakers is an entertainment center which is about 9 feet wide. My listening interests are varied from solo guitar and light jazz to occasional orchestral music. I don't generally listen at high volumes and am not particularly interested in strong bass except for the rare action movie background.
Unless not advisable for some reason, I would like to keep the Peachtree Nova as a preamp because of the significant latitude for source connection and what seems to have a decent internal DAC. If this option would substantially defeat the purpose of the intended modification I would work around it. I can no longer deal with sounds that are "bright" which I now find uncomfortable but detailed sound is very important.
So, the questions are: is the move to tubes the best option and, if so, what might be some reasonably priced amps that could accomplish the goal. This, of course, would take into consideration room size, etc. for determining power requirements. If there are other more practical and less expensive options to consider, I would appreciate that advice as well.
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- 108 posts total
Can find one, but the Martin Logan Montis looks to be very close and in vintage also. That EPDR looks real bad from 3khz to 10khz being -70degrees to -55 degrees phase angle between those frequencies. http://www.stereophile.com/content/martinlogan-montis-loudspeaker-measurements Cheers George |
George ... I concur that the impedance and phase angle traces between 3K and 10K Hz look rough. But I suspect an amp will not be asked to deliver tons of power in that spectrum. By contrast, I think the "power region" will be south of 1K Hz and maybe even below that. That is where I'd be focusing attention. The impedance curve in the lower bass goes off the chart. It's almost an open circuit. Are there amps out there that can really drive these beasts. Btw, inserting a Zero would seem to exacerbate the "open circuit" look of the impedance trace in the lower bass. These are tough hombres. |
"Relatively few ML owners use tube amps I would think. Tube amps have never been in the picture." Actually, that's not true. I've seen many ML systems that were powered by tubes. Here's a few examples. My VAC 30/30 had no problem driving my SL-3's. A good friend of mine is very into vintage gear, and have seen him power his CLS's with many different tube amps, even SET's (I know that's not the perfect match, but I thought it worth mentioning because the amps were very low power.), A dealer I know well sells ML as his main line of speakers and always had them paired with Jadis and Sonic Frontiers tube amps. I was invited to a staff meeting after hours at a B&M store that I did a lot of business with, for a new product demo (Prodigy) with and Gayle Sanders, and he set them up with an ARC VT-100. One of the magazines, TAS I think, put together a recommended system consisting of an ARC VT-50 and the Aerius or SL3 (can't remember as it was a long time ago.). Singer demoed the SL2's with an ARC Classic 60 and CJ 11-A. I could keep going on and on with the examples. But I think pairing ML and tubes is much more common than you think. |
Broadstone, "To answer one question regarding the comparison of live versus recorded music, especially using the piano for reference, we have a piano and, yes, the same notes either recorded or live create the same discomfort. This fact, of course leads me to the conclusion that it is not a component of my system that is the culprit for at least this issue." Looking at the above quote, the one thing that stands out is the fact that you have the same problem when you hear real instruments live. I think there's a very good chance that you will not fix this problem with equipment. Think of the live piano as the best or perfect stereo system there is. There's no where else to go. If you want to continue to listen to music, you may have to go in a non audiophile direction. Maybe just something for low volume background listening, or something similar. I wish that I was able to suggest some better options for you, but I can't. Hopefully, someone else will come up with something. |
- 108 posts total