B&W Matrix 801 Series II

Also, I gave $1500 for them. How'd I do?

You did phenomenally. I've been looking for a pair myself and can only wish for a deal like that.

Wemfan - Great news as your speakers are functional. Assuming they are not really flawed cosmetically from being banged around a studio?, I agree with Banquo that you got a steal. fwiw - Last month a Canadian audio friend I know who has owned 801's in the past; purchased 801s again with shipping and he was very happy to pay $2500 plus shipping. They were in very good condition.

Btw - its a pleasure for me reading your honest, unbiased responses.

I was surprised comparing these amps through the 801s. You could go out and have a cup of coffee and come back and you would have no trouble telling which amp was playing. They sounded that different from each other

This can be seen as blessing or a curse - it depends on your point of view.
For example if you are an audiophile and a bit of a speaker cable/ wire "nut" - you may end up with 12 wires hanging on a wall somewhere in your house; one for every month ....smartly hidden from your ....

wife

The last four or five years I ended up with four turntables ...in the same room..... at the same time.
I place full blame on the 801's.
And if you can't laugh at yourself from time to time; then its time to get out of any hobby.

CT0517, I set them up as you said but I didn't run the lows with the Parasound and the higher end with the Mac yet. I forgot about trying it until I reread your post tonight. What is bi-wire? I suspect it is the same as bi-amp? I am familiar with biamping.

Remember, I am a musician not an audiophile. :-)

In order to become an audiophile you are required to step over to the dark side; do what manufacturers don't want u to do with their products :^)
As long as it does not result in conditions discussed earlier. Follow your own road using your own ears.
Definitely try this. I think you will be surprised at the results.
Remove the jumpers joining the four terminals - put Parasound to the bass terminals - Mc Amp to the Mid/HF connectors.

Biwire.
With factory jumpers removed.
When using just the Mc or the Parasound get another set of identical speaker wire for each speaker. Join the ends at the amp end - two (+) together and two (-) . You can buy banana or spade plugs that do this for you (connect them together) so single plug or spade - results. Be VERY careful not to let wire come loose from the amp input connectors and touch the amp frame.

At the speaker end attach one set (+ and -) to the high and one set to the lows. As the 801 do hit 5 ohms it is important to keep the wires short and decent quality. Don't mix and match the wires going to the mid/highs andf lows- keep them the same.
The last I had the 801 set up was with OTL amplifiers. OTL means Outboard Transformer Less. Meaning the main power transformers are not on the amp plinth where the tubes reside.
In this pic the main amplifier transformers are located outside of the picture area. The speaker cables are only a few feet long biwired.
click me

Like ZEN, I thought the very upper end seemed not quite as good as the rest of the tonal spectrum.

We should discuss this as it is the most common complaint from audiophiles on forums.

The good news is the speakers are fine, functional and and working as designed.
There are TWO parts to fix this - imo. if its not resolved with part one - part two will clinch it.

PART ONE is understanding their design and objective. I felt that the Stereophile review did a real good job summing them up based on my experiences.

From Stereophile (re: S2 review)

"Higher in frequency, the response trend (averaged across a 30 degrees lateral window on the tweeter axis) is basically flat, but with a slight excess of energy in the presence region and a corresponding lack of energy in the top octave. All things being equal, this will make the speaker both a little too revealing of recorded detail and somewhat fussy when it comes to the quality of source and amplification components, just as LL noted in his auditioning comments."

So we need a good source, preamp and amp/s, as we have discussed and as you have realized as well.

PART TWO of the problem.

Right now you are hearing a tonal imbalance based on your comments and it is causing the highs to stand out or not be as good as they should be. See the attached frequency chart from B&W on the 801's.

801 w &w/o filter in place

The plotted chart is the 801's without the BAF. Note how even though you think you are hearing good bass right now the db levels for the bass whether with SS or Tube are really dropping off starting at 100 hz. In a smaller room that 100hz plateau will cause real boom problems and the room will need to be treated.

The dotted lines have been drawn by B&W and show how the 801's measured with and without the BAF.
See how the dotted line drawn in by B&W for the BAF works on my sample makes the bass more linear. The lows are boosted increasing DB's and this establishes tonal balance by ensuring a flatter plot line. I don't have the actual plotted graph with the BAF.
The result of this is the bass notes will be clearer, and you will hear music notes on material below 40 hz from the source.
You are clearly hearing the differences between the amps now. imo you will therefore clearly hear the difference with the BAF on music that has sub 40 hz music. In technical terms the BAF converts them from a 4th to a 6th order butterworth alignment; with a 19 hz cutoff and boosts the low frequency.

Regarding the Krell amps you mentioned I will / can provide more info on this later as I have run way too long here. We would need to discuss if the Krells have been recapped for example. I think these are "one" example of a truly excellent candidate and would be awesome in that large room of yours. But $5000 is a big budget used as many amp candidates exist used including SS and tube designs. I can tell you I know that your current preamp MC 2300 is compatible with the Krell mentioned because it has capacitors coupled to the outputs to protect against a tube ever blowing and sending DC current to the Krell amp.... as the Krell design has no fuses to protect it if this happened. I have been down this road already because I also am using a Tube preamp albeit with a SS power supply, with my Krell amp right now.

As far as the speakers go; fwiw myself I would leave the crossovers for now - as they are not broken.

Get the BAF, get the stands, Get amp/s first. Here them as John Bowers envisioned first. You can always mod them later if desired.

To understand what the stands will do with proper amps a picture is sometimes worth a thousand words and gives you a glimpse of what these speakers are capable of.

original 801s s80..not matrix on stands...not designed to use BAF

Wemfan - Can I ask if you are an all digital setup (i.e. cd, file streaming) and/or do you play vinyl or plan on later ?
Sorry for the long post ....again.

Cheers

The last I had the 801 set up was with OTL amplifiers. OTL means Outboard Transformer Less. Meaning the main power transformers are not on the amp plinth where the tubes reside.

?????? The Wikipedia Definition may help with your understanding of
an Output Transformerless (OTL) Amplifier, as I don't think it has anything to do with the amp plinth.

Tls49 - my apologies - when you post running to long in your own post ...you should heed your own advice. my bad.
Excuse my excitement - you see I just bought this real nice 9.9 merc 4 stroke motor at bass pro shops at 1/3 off (if this winter ever ends) and have "outboard" on the brain. Yes output. thank u.

but word technicalities aside... this hobby has no real reference standards....so...imo

the main transformers I referenced in discussion really are... "out board", rather than ....."inboard" for the boaters among us....another hobby.....

fwiw I also picked up a nice little portable "dipole" fish finder. it shoots beams down and sideways...not to be confused with dipole speakers....which haven't yet entered the discussion here. But wait someone did mention Maggies earlier....my bad again... cheers

Ct0517, as I was reading, I could sense you were on a roll, and I was giving you a thumbs up for saying to use identical wire when bi-wiring, and I don't even like bi-wiring. Then at the OTL part, I stopped, thinking, "what did he say? That sounds like Outboard Power Supply." Boats never crossed my mind. Sorry, but I had to correct that. Glad you understand.

And, Cheers to You!