B&W Matrix 801 Series II

My problem is that i just don't have enough experience in listening to good quality stereo amps. I am going to have to make my decision on which amp to acquire based upon recommendations and whatever I learn about how to compare specs. One reservation I did have acquiring the 801s was their low sensitivity.

Frogman, I have heard many great things about Manley amps. They are in the back of my mind. I am currently compiling a list of amps that appeal to me and Manley is on it. Any other suggestions? I do like tubes. My c2300, MC275 and Khorns is a really great sound to me. I can't say just how good it compares to other audiophile equipment but I love to listen to it. It is really an exciting system for me. However, trading out the Klips for the 801s showed me that they are a different animal. A low powered tube amp is not the place to look for these speakers so I am considering a much larger power SS amp. Maybe I should be considering tube? I don't know. Anyway, don't be shy. Tell me what you think. I do plan on acquiring an amp for the 801s very soon.

Dave72, That Parasound has come up in several threads. It appears to be something special. In the last day or two i have been learning all i can about Pass labs. Soon I am going to take a good look at the Parasound. Thanks.

Ct0517, Your posts are always most welcome. Please post some thoughts. Don't hold back tell me what you think I should do.

Please post some thoughts. Don't hold back tell me what you think I should do.

Wemfan
no problem I can do that.
first if you can answer a couple questions that would help guide the recommendation.

Hypothetical situation

Lets say you have had a long day and need to unwind in your studio.
Its wasn't a bad day per say; which usually puts me in the wrong frame of mind to want to listen to music.
So a productive but long day; and now to help you stabilize (release those endorphin's) you need to hear those vibes from your favorite music.

1) Can u name a sampling of six albums/selections you are going to go for in this situation. Maybe Patti Griffin that you mentioned earlier is one ?

2) Assuming you still have the 10 foot Equilateral triangle layout ? What volume will you play the music at:

a) Low volume that allows for conversation with a friend.
b) Medium volume 75-80-85 db not including music peaks.(Doctors say our ears are ok for 8 hours a day at 80db)
c) Higher volume. 90 db average up - time to get up and do some dancing in the room. (Maybe you are having a party in your studio one day)

3) Of the music selections do any of them fall within the medium or high volume level most of the time ?

This info helps me with a recommendation. Look forward to hearing some selections.
Cheers

Frogman you have a way with words to describe sound so I look forward to your description of analog vs digital on the ET2 thread.

Also I like how Elee described the difference between stock and Northcreek crossovers.

Regarding the NC crossover upgrade, I would probably wait a while. IMHO, they make a difference, but again, it is a shade difference, not a primary color difference.

He painted a picture for me with his words.

You're welcome, Wemfan. The Parasound is a solid contender and is great bang for the buck (in high end terms.) There really isn't anything wrong with it. It's a very good set of amps.

The Pass Labs, however, is something special, imo. It does cost more than the Parasounds, but I will say it's worth it, especially this new .8 series. From reading on other forums, just about everyone who has bought a .8 series amp has been very satisfied with the sound, and feel it is better than the older .5 series.

****A low powered tube amp is not the place to look for these speakers so I am considering a much larger power SS amp. Maybe I should be considering tube? I don't know. Anyway, don't be shy. Tell me what you think.****

OK, I won't be shy, and in doing so I obviously show my own biases; so keep that in mind.

I still don't understand why you make the leap to assuming that, while preferring the sound with the Mac, simply because the Mac doesn't have enough power ("not even in the ballpark"), you need to go to a ss amp. I think that the pertinent questions and answers are found in one of your previous comments:

****Frogman, The MAC did sound much better to me. The Parasound is just not as quality of an amp as the MAC. It has nothing to do with SS VS tubes.
I like tube amps but I also like SS in audio. I am just thinking along ss state lines partially because of power ( more headroom, etc.) but maybe I am wrong? When I said I was a tube guy it was in reference to guitar amps which is a whole different world than stereo gear.****

I would not assume that it has nothing to do with SS vs tubes. I think it has everything to do with that. Here's why, and I will try to give you some background for why I am saying that:

I am very familiar with the sound of your Mac amp. I recently almost killed a friend for trading in a pair of them and his C20 tube pre to a local dealer for a Mac ss integrated which we both now agree doesn't sound nearly as good, but is convenient as hell and is "new". I also had this same friend's Levinson 23.5 amp for a few days which I almost bought; but didn't, since the experience served to, once again, show me that it really is an apples/oranges comparison (ss/tube-Levinson/Manley). I have also heard my Manleys in his system replacing the Macs.

I don't know the sound of the Parasound, but I just read several on-line reviews of it (for whatever that is worth) and it appears to be fairly well regarded for its sound; one reviewer compares it to a Krell and a Levinson both in the $10,000 range and claims that the Parasound can hold its own. Now, I have owned enough ss and tube amps over the years to know that this type of review can only tell you so much. However, the conclusion that I can come to with a fair amount of certainty (for me) and based on my experiences is that both your Mac and the Parasound are, in fact, roughly of equal quality compared to the best of each respective technology (tube/ss). So, IMO, it is not true that the "Parasound is just not the same quality as the Mac". I would say that they are and what you are hearing is, in fact, the intrinsic differences between ss and tubes. Differences that will be there even as you move up the quality ladder to more expensive amps. So, since you can get more than enough power with a more powerful tube amp, then why go to ss? IMO, and in spite of all the claims that the two technologies are getting closer and closer sound wise (they are), there are still certain differences in how each technology reproduces music that will be there no matter how much you spend. You have to pick your poison. And, BTW, if you like tube guitar amps because of their sound, there are definitely parallels to the issue of their sound in stereo playback.

Here is what I would do, and I am now going to contradict my earlier comments about the musician thing (and apologies again for that). First, you have to level the playing field. You have two amps of (IMO) roughly equal quality; one ss and one tube. You need to use both with speakers on which the difference in POWER will be fairly insignificant due to the speaker's efficiency: the Klipschorns. Then spend time with each amp on the K's and work on your music and pay attention to not only how long it takes you to learn certain songs or guitar solos; and, just as importantly how much fun you are having doing so. Does one amp seem to facilitate the process? Does one amp let you hear some subtle expressive quality in a guitar player's phrasing that the other amp obscures? Don't rush the process and switch back and forth between the two amps on the K's. I believe that after a short time certain patterns will start to reveal themselves and one amp will reveal itself as superior; and which technology is better FOR YOU. Good luck.