What CD player will warm my Thiel/Classe systm?

Wow, if only I had you guys for advice in December! Unfortunately, I didn't know about Audiogon then. To sum up, I talked to four different sales reps at three high-end audioshops and remarkably none asked about the size of the room -- they asked what my budget was and then showed me what they sold: B&W, Thiel, Martin Logans and one other type I've forgotten. I chose the Thiels because in the showroom with some of my favorite CDs, they sounded the best. I bought the Onkyo at a high-end audio shop 10 years ago, so it is not quite Circuit City breeding.

To my wife's consternation, I immediately upgraded from a smallish NAD receiver and bought the Classe (enter Audiogon) to get more power and current to drive the 1.6s. Actually the speakers are positioned on each side of a brick fireplace, three feet out from back wall and toed in a bit. So they fire across a 20 foot distance at one end of the room. As Zaikesman surmised, it is a "greatroom," and the long side actually opens to a dining room/kitchen. The ceiling is about 12 feet high with beams and exposed wood, plus a hardwood floow with an area rug. There are large windows on two sides of the listening area. I just bought floor length cellular blinds for the glass doors on one side to soften the sound reflections. Furniture rings the walls, with no obstructions between me and the speakers. I have played a lot with speaker positioning, starting with eight feet apart and gradually moving them out. The room is so large that they sound best at 12 feet to my ears.

In reviewing past subwoofer threads last night it looked like a REL Strata-3 would be a good option, but I couldn't find one for sale on Audiogon or anywhere else in the US. I should probably begin a new thread in the speakers forum to ask for experience of the Thiel 1.6 with the REL, Velodyne, and any other subs that cost less than the Thiel SS1. If money were no object (I wish), the SS1 would be at the top of my list. I really can't afford to sell what I have at a loss and start all over, particularly if the addition of a sub will solve my problem. Thanks again to all.

Thanks for the room description. Incredible, ain't it, that at three different shops no one asked about this. Along with a speaker's intrinsic response, the speaker/room interaction is really the most sonically determinative aspect of the entire system (any system).

The window treatment is a good idea, and it could allow you to aim the speakers a little more straight ahead, which would also reduce the perceived treble, though perhaps at the cost of some imaging precision. It might help to do something to damp or break up the reflection from the wall behind your chair as well. Unfortunately though, in addition to reflecting treble, windows leak bass, which the blinds won't affect (the fireplace might do so as well). It's probably good that you're set up firing across the short dimension of the room, which I was going to suggest if you weren't. I hope the area rug lies between you and the speakers. Having a wide placement separation between Thiels is not uncommon. Your listening distance is about the max recommended, but that's appropriate to your room size. Having the speakers 3 ft. away from the front wall is pretty standard, though moving them a little closer to the wall could increase the perceived lower frequency balance a bit.

But basically it sounds like you're working with what you've got, and the necessary evil (just kidding) of getting a sub is the next step, unless you were to change speakers (and even then you might still want a sub in this situation). It's no mystery to me that you preferred the sound of the Thiels in the store. The 1.6's aren't very demanding of power, though your room is, but I'm sure they appreciated the upgrade in amplification quality. You might try getting the outrigger stands if you don't already have them, as they could help slightly with the bass by increasing the footprint stability of the cabinets and hence LF wavelaunch. Best of luck with blending in a subwoofer and soliciting more advice on a new thread (lots of folks around here know more about subs than me :-), and let us know what happens, and when you get that CDP too.

I totally missed this: "My room is about 20 x 30 with a high ceiling."

When I first started getting into "high end" audio, about 10 years ago (after years of owning a NAD/JBL "mid-fi", to be generous, system), I bought drastically better speakers, slightly used B&W M802SIII's. I then spent a few years (in retrospect, needless) frustration as I was so clueless about how much power they needed, among other things. Many visits to various "high end" audio salons in the metro-Boston area were almost less-than-useless in figuring out what other components I needed.

I still think you should consider upgrading the CDP--I can't imagine a 10 y.o. Onkyo is doing justice to the Theils & Classe amp. Seriously, I think a Meridian 506 for $600 perhaps (?), or a new Jolida would improve your system a lot for low$$. If the front end is mediocre it almost doesn't matter what else you do IMO.

The good news: a used sub & excellent used CDP might run you $2K roughly for both.....

On 8/22 I wrote of the 1.6, "It's appropriate for smaller rooms, and listeners willing to live without the bottom 2.5 octaves being reproduced in full". That should have read bottom 1.5 octaves, the speaker is supposed to hold up in the bass until around 60Hz before roll-off.

Ruhl,

I just wanted to add to what Zaikesman so accurately posted above. Adding a subwoofer to my system was one of the best/cost effective moves I could have made. With some caveats: They are almost impossible to audition anywhere except at home. The first dealer I went to was nice enough. He had 5 subs in my price range all lined up for my private audition and didn't bat an eye as I put them thru the tryout at very high volume. But he just did not seem to get what I was looking for and kept steering me toward the Velodyne that HE liked and/or owned. I went home and called Velodyne and explained my wants and needs to one of their technicians who was extremely indignant about the "advise" that their salesman gave me. He recommended a model in my price range and another dealer somewhat nearby. That dealer recommended the same model as the technician out of 18 or so models (what were the odds of that?) so I bought it. I did get a 30 day return guarantee. It did take about a month of moving it around and adjusting the controls to get it to lock in, but once it did, it improved EVERYTHING. My point is to consider calling the manufacture(s) of the subs you may be considering and tell them what YOU want to hear. In my case they were very knowledgeable and helpful. Finally, don't be afraid of sub-setup procedures. It's not work, it's actually fun! And well worth the effort. And when you get it right - and you will - you'll see what I'm talking about. Best of luck, Matt......