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New DAC Not a Dramatic Improvement?

Ok, So after much thought and asking questions here on audiogon as to whether I should get a new cdp or DAC, I decided on a DAC because I plan on implementing a music server with a Mac Mini. I got it last week and hooked it up so that I could do A/B comparisons with my cdp as is, and through the DAC. My cdp is a 1-2 year old Onkyo dv-sp405 dvd/cd player. At first I was impressed. The bass and vocals were more defined, and there seemed to be more space. Not a lot more space, but just a little bit more openess. The vocals were also moved forward in the soundstage and had more thickness. The thing is, none of these things were very dramatic. THe more time I have sat and listened and done comparisons on many cd's I find the results vary. On some cd's there is significant improvement, and on others, hardly noticeable. In a blind test, do I think I could reliably say whether I was listening to the cdp directly or through the DAC? Let's just say I wouldnt bet my life on it. I probably wouldnt even bet 20$ on it, unless I could hear the two back to back, and on some recordings, not even then.

Now I know about diminishing returns, but I would think the difference between a 150$ dvd/cdp and a 2K$ DAC would be pretty obvious. On top of that, My DAC is hooked up with Transparent Cables (MW Super) and my cdp with 50$ Monster Cables.

Continuing.. I expect some people with say that a good dac needs a good transport. Some will probably say that the dac is being held back by the onkyo as a transport. I have also compared the cdp through the DAC against apple lossless files played from my computer through USB. They are identical.

What could be the weak link? I do not want to say what DAC I am using but lets just say it is a very recent one and around 2K. It is from a very respected company and very well reviewed. My other gear is a McIntosh MA6450 integrated, gallo ref 3.1 speakers, transparent cables. Could it be that my amp is not very revealing? I am thinking about selling the DAC and getting a cheaper one (DAC MAGIC, PS AUDIO DL3) since I will need one for my Mac Mini anyway. Honestly, I just dont think I can justify having 2K in my current DAC for the minimal difference.

Thanks for any insight you can provide.
farjamed
shadorne's avatar
shadorne
7,333 posts
 
BTW - it can indeed be subtle - lets suppose your CDP/DVD, cheap as it is, is
working just fine (and why not - people rave about the Sony PS1!!) and say you
use a good DAC then you would need to listen extremely carefully on a good
system and good recording to hear it. IMHO percussion and particularly ride and
cymbals and a certain "lightness" to the music is what you might
expect. Thinner vocals too. Imaging may be slightly better making the
soundstage narrower ever so slightly. The bass may sound a little tighter or
punchier but overall it will and should be the same and not be anything like had
you changed speakers which would be night and day.
tholt
545 posts
 
THolt,

Maybe, but I do not know a good high current integrated for the Gallos that could do as well as the A3CR + pre-amp combo for that price?

Mapman, you don't think there's a powerful enough integrated to be had for $2000? I doubt that. At any rate, the OP has plenty of suggestions here.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
Mapman, you don't think there's a powerful enough integrated to be had for $2000?
Tholt (Threads | Answers)
That's not what Mapman wrote. Read his statement again more carefully.
tholt
545 posts
 
That's not what Mapman wrote. Read his statement again more carefully.

It would be helpful if you would explain your comments more thoroughly. Enlighten me then if you would -- what is high current?
tvad
9,467 posts
 
The statement Mapman made that you quoted:
Maybe, but I do not know a good high current integrated for the Gallos that could do as well as the A3CR + pre-amp combo for that price?

He said he did not know a good $2000 high current integrated THAT COULD DO AS WELL AS the A3CR+Juicy Music preamp combo on the Gallo speakers.

He did NOT say he did not think there was a powerful enough integrated amp to be had at the $2000 price point.

He was making a value judgment comparing the performance of the A3CR + Juicy Music preamp versus the performance of any $2000 high current integrated amp.

Again, he never stated there wasn't a $2000 high current integrated amp to be had for the Gallos.

Hope that clears things up for you.
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