Wide bandwidth = necessary?


Hi folks, there is one paradigm that bothers me a bit: many experts and audiophiles are stating that Red Book technology is outdated because of it's bandwidth limited function. I've read the human ear is capable of perception of frequencies beyond the normal human hearing, up to 40kHz. But this is only with live music! When listening to recorded music there is a restricted bandwidth because many microphones can only pick up frequencies up to 20kHz. So why the need for more and more bandwidth with regard to digital sound reproduction technology? What is not present in the recording can't be heard either, even with very wide bandwidth music reproduction gear.
What is also laughable is that many vinyl adepts say that phono playback gear can reproduce tones as high as 40kHz and that is one of the reasons phono playback sounds more "natural" than digital playback. This is a bit of a contradictio in terminis because most LP's are very band limited (30Hz to 16kHz is quite common). Your comments please.

Chris
dazzdax
El, interesting point. If we look at a 20K waveform, one cycle of the wave is only sampled twice in redbook cd encoding. The entire cycle of the waveform must be reconstructed from only these two samples.

Editor John Atkinson makes some interesting points in his review of the Meridian CD player in the latest Stereophile. He correctly points out that if one looks at the impulse response of CD players, one can see ripple both before, and after, the impulse. This being a consequence of the use of FIR filters. It was thought that this ripple was of very minimal importance, as it is both down in level and at the Nyquist frequency of 22.05K. However, the work of Peter Craven seems to indicate that, while the post impulse ripple is covered by natural decay and becomes part of the music, the distortion that precedes the impulse is not masked and is psychoacoustically destructive. He goes on to posit that this is not related to our regular frequency dependent perceptions, but that humans also have a type of wavefront detection mechanism that is independent of our freqency perception. The pre ripple trips this wavefront detector and is perceived as diminishing the detail in the music. Now, this is intrigueing as it makes sense in the context of us living in caves and huddling around the fire, but there are many questions that are unanswered in the brief write up. Such as, are these high frequency wavefronts perceived by the auditory system or the skin, or some other organ? Is the music diminished because some of the finite processing power of the brain is taken up in the wavefront perception process, etc? There are two AES white papers on the phenomenon, but I have not had a chance to read them yet. It does seem like an interesting idea, forwarded by scientists that are at the forefront of digital theory, rather than analog loving detractors.
Viridian...I have long believed that our sense of hearing includes a "waveform steepness" factor quite independent of frequency response. I came up with this idea a couple of decades ago when I found out that I could hear the introduction/removal of a low pass filter at a frequency well above the frequency at which I became stone-deaf to a sine wave (the usual test signal). This would also explain why a supertweeter operating above 20KHz makes an audible difference.
Eldartford: that is an interesting phenomenon. Do you think we humans can appreciate more of the sound if the gear is capable of reproducing frequencies above 20kHz even if the recording itself doesn't contain any frequency above 16kHz? With other words: would the music sound more "natural"? If that is the case, then I have to have this super tweeter also --> it will superficially create naturalness (sounds like contradictio in terminis).

Chris
The other way that these high frequencies can change the perceived sound is through waveform theory where constructive and destructive interferance among waveforms can cause beats that fall down into the audible range. IE a 22K and a 23K signal can create a difference signal at 1K, etc. Note that this would be happening in the listening room and is not sound that is on the recording itself, so must be considered to be distortion. No doubt, this is also part of the phenomena.