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Killing BluRay, new Oppo BR 83

OK, I have been vocal on these forums with my opinion that BluRay is a short term media, and will not become the dominant media format. My reason:

1) There is not a mind blowing difference in BluRay quality
over the existing domintant format of DVD. That's not to say BluRay is not better, but it's not the difference between VHS and DVD, where you couldn't believe what you were seeing. Does it look and sound better, yes. Does it change your life, no. Especially with the quality of the upconverting DVD players available.

2) Given my first point, I don't think there is a big call to replace any purchased DVD's with BluRay. Any videophile who had a bunch of VHS tapes did that immeadiately with DVD, but why do it again? Basically the same disk, great sound, and small size, with excellent picture. I don't think that investment is going to be made again, and that means the market for BluRay discs is MUCH smaller for classic movies.

3) The advenet of internet based movie downloads is already available in HD. Granted, it's only 720 and no HD soundtracks, but does anyone believe that is not coming, and quickly. I love using my AppleTV to rent movies, never leave the house, and don't have to return. Honestly, I have bought a bunch of movies that way, since I have such a big network storage capacity. I think this will be the dominant AV format going forward, both movies and music. More high res video and music available faster. I believe that the rise in the market for outboard DAC's will become even greater, and they will have he ability to decode the new higher res music, and possible video soundtracks in surround. Output to analog preamps for Audiophile grade sound will become the norm for audiophiles, or hybrid HT/2 channel systems, as is becoming the norm.

I whole-heartedly believe this since recieving my new Oppo BluRay player. It is a great player, and it's the second BluRay I have had in my system so it just has re-inforced my previous hypothosis regarding the future of BluRay. Don't get me wrong, the player is STELLAR in every way. Considering the price, it's almost criminal especially on SACD and DVD-Audio (which I have not had any of the problems that the first firmware owners had). I have not gotten to use it as a CD transport yet, I am waiting on one of Paul G's (TubeAudioDesign) new DACs and the redbook CD sound on it's own was just OK.

That said, after watching several movies in both BluRay and DVD on the same player, the difference is just not that huge. It is better, but not enough to make me run out and buy any of those movies again on BluRay. It's the difference, to me, between the Magnepan 3.6 and 20.1. It's definitely better, but they are both excellent.

OK, those are my thoughts, FWIW.

I came to these conclusion
macdadtexas
macdadtexas OP
1,794 posts
 
OK, after re-reading this thread, and many hilarous (maybe not intentionally) responses about how if you are a peasant with less than a $10k processor or $20k projector of course there is no difference between BluRay, yada, yada, yada....

I think my conclusions have been verified. We on this forum are about 1/10 of 1% of the total population as owners of higher end electronics, so if only a small percentage of this group see and hear a huge difference it's just not there and it's certainly not going to become the mainstream norm.

Also, after taking this player over to a buddies with a 1080p projector (Panasonic 3000u) and 120" screen (Sterwart, not sure of the model)set up and going through a bunch of BluRay to DVD (and we downloaded some AppleTV HD movies to compare as well) comparisons we came to the same conclusion: better, but not even close to the difference we saw between VHS and DVD. Also, the Oppo BluRay upconverts so well that the DVD's looked spectacular and the HD AppleTV really looked good, but, not as good as the upconverted DVD's or the BluRay. The DTS-HD soundtracks are fantastic, and do seem more dynamic, well just sounded better, especially on my system, but once again, it's not the difference between your VHS and DVD that was shocking, it's a refinement. It's not even close to the difference between Vinyl and CD, so there if you like them collect your BluRay's now, and put them next to your SACD's, DVD-Audio's, Beta's, 8 tracks, et al
knownothing
1,298 posts
 
Macdatexas,

It may not matter if BluRay is much better than DVD or not - it won the format war at a time of transition from "low" def to "High" def, and it is the product sales people will be telling there customers to buy when they come in to upgrade to HD TVs in increasing numbers. The extent of the transition will depend on BluRay price points at the time most of the population makes this conversion. So they will pull the trigger when people go into a store to replace their DVD player with a new model equipped with HDMI connections so they can hook it up to their new HD TV. Unlike the VHS to DVD transition, BluRay players are backwardly compatible - so not stranding peoples existing DVD collections.

As for the hard media versus digital on demand products, there are plenty of people who will continue to create demand for "take and go" movies for use both at home, in their mini vans and on their laptops and portable disk players. I do not predict the immediate demise of BluRay as you suggest anytime soon - as much as Microsoft still licking their wounds over HD-DVD and trying to stay relevant pushing broadband solutions - would like us to believe.

You can now get a laptop with BluRay for $700 and a stand alone BluRay player for $160 - both well within reach of the upwardly mobile middle class consumer. No $20,000 dollar projectors needed to make that sale.
albertporter's avatar
albertporter
4,927 posts
 
Anyone have opinion on comparison of Pioneer Elite BDP-95FD against the Oppo BDP-83? Not only image quality but sound. I'm basically an all analog guy but it would be nice if the Oppo could serve for what few CDs and SACDs I own.
macdadtexas OP
1,794 posts
 
Knownothing, I could not disagree with you more.

The minute, and I mean the absolute minute, that movie studios start releasing all movies to digital downloade the same day that they release the DVD/BluRay you can start selling Blockbuster and Hollywood Video stock short. Why on earth would you go rent and have to return, with possible penalties, the same movie you could rent via cable or media server in HD? My point is that the difference in BluRay is not going to make them run to the store.

Also, why would studios want to spend the money printing the DVD if they can just have it downloaded? Storage is getting cheaper and cheaper every day, you will be able to store, and back up, movies very cheaply, very quickly. I have a Drobo with Drobo share now, it's INFINITE storage really, that back's itself up, I have hundreds of hours of HD video of my kids on it now. When it read 50% full I changed 2 of the 4 drives to 1TB from 500MB and you know what, it cost me a whole $200. I think it's going that direction.

Also my perspective comes from being the guy everyone goes to with AV questions. It's just a hobby, but I probably help purchase/install about 15-20 AV systems a year for co-workers and friends, and I help more people just purchase their gear. I never, never steer them to BluRay, and once anyone has seen an AppleTV they almost always buy one. Between the music server function, and almost everyone already has iTunes, and the downloading movies, they can't believe how cheap it is, I'm with them.

Why, why, why mess with discs???

This experience also has made me believe vinyl and DAC's will continue and expand their renewed popularity. If you think downloadable HD movies are years and years away, I need to ask you if even 2 yrs ago you thought the majority of digital audiophiles would get rid of their disc players and buy outboard DAC's to play digital files?? That's where it's gone, and continues to go. High res or low res, digital is only a file now, not a disc.

Vinyl is still better (best) and will continue, I believe, to grow again along side the digital file/DAC craze. Once agian, my experience is not one dinner party at our house has not been followed by at least 2 calls for help in buying a turntable.

All that said, I like my Oppo, but it's really for the full multidisc capability, not the BluRay.

Albert, I have not compared but who cares really? Your not going to quit playing vinyl, and the SACD's don't sound as good as vinyl on the best rigs so.... Hey where are you in Texas, what a great rig, if it's Austin I could bring you some wine when I go on a road trip from Houston........
nmuntean
9 posts
 
It's interesting that the only variables really being considered here regarding the timeframe for downloadable movies are consumer demand and technological capacity (for streaming full 1080P movies, etc.), when the real fly in the ointment is the incredibly complex legal agreements that studios secure regarding the exclusive rights and release schedule for every single film they produce.

After its theatrical run, a film has an exclusive period for pay-per-view, or airlines/hotels, or premium cable, or dvds, etc. These are incredibly complex and long-standing agreements, through which the studios get forwarded much of the money they use to finance the films' productions, so they can just cut and run overnight because they see an opportunity in downloadable content. The studios are now becoming more and more interested in downloadable content, but it will still be a LONG time before the vast majority of movies are available in 1080p on demand; the CEO of Netflix, Reed Hastings, recently said that it would be at least ten years before that happens.

Think about that, DVDs officially came out twelve years ago, and Blu-Ray came out about two years ago; that means that there's still an entire format cycle left before the legal and technological hurdles surrounding downloadable content are overcome. This isn't a question a consumer demand or consumer techno-savvy, it's a question of a fundamental paradigm shift in content delivery that simply cannot be exploited at the present time because of these longstanding structures.
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