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Bidat vs Perfect Wave vs Weiss and others

This is thread I started a while ago and promised in February i would start doing some real world comparative testing using the Bidat (Plus Mod) as the ref. The units under test are to include in no specific order the MSB Platinum Dac, the Weiss Minervera and the Playback Design player. I posted this under the follow-up of the original thread and it is there is you do a search under Digital for "ps audio perfect". I can't understand why it did not 'promote' to the top of the digital section as it did in the past whenever there was a new contribution, so I have started a new related thread with the first entry of my fun (and I hope edifying comparative experiences).
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Ok, I just got a broken in Weiss Minerva (several hundred hours at least). It has been in my system burning in for about 18 hours (18 hours since arriving in my home, time to come to thermal equilibrium). I have done some comparative listening to the Museatex Dcc-1 (a rarely known digital preamp 19 bit dual differential type) using glass Tos on both and then glass on the DCC1 vs a very expensive (can't name it yet as the manufacturer has not released it...sorry :( ) Firewire on the Weiss. I have a Mac Mini (2007 model) 2.0 ghz Core2Duo with 4Gig of ram running Leopard (although this model can only see 3.01 gig of that (I used 4gig as the memory transfer is optimized when the mem modules are the same). I also have a 1TB NAS (all over wifi). I am of course going to reserve final judement until a bit later.

I will be comparing the Museatex Bidat with the Plus Mod later this weekend. As a teaser, I will go on record and say that honestly at this point I don't agree with the stellar reviews concerning the Weiss Minerva.

It is resolute, almost technicolor but just to give you a short glimpse of what I am hearing, I could imagine a well healed vinyl person listening to Holly Cole on vinyl and then listening to the Weiss (playing the same in CD format) and saying "this is why I will never leave vinyl". Now that may sound harsh, but this is a hobby and I don't have a dog in the race, I am just reporting my ears findings.

I listened to a few high resolution files 176.4/24 and 96/24 but what I heard was a really clear highly resolved soul-less rendition of the music. It never ever made me smile or relax into the music the way the DCC-1/Bidat or even my former (when I actually spun cd's...wow time flies) stellar Dynavox Dynastation 2 (the finest CD player I have ever heard).

In a nutshell (at this point) it just sounds like digital and that aint good in my camp because I am not forgetting about the gear and just listening to the music. I don't like syrupy or dark, I have heard plenty of players try to use that trick to sound musical. No, I look for something that is more elusive and few their be that find that magical combination when forging through the nether regions of the digital domain. I will continue listening to see if the Weiss surprises me :)

More to come...
audiofun
audiofun OP
669 posts
 
Thanks Oxia, that made for good reading. I think I will forego the venture into the world of AN after reading that and Vhiners' posts :)
vhiner
533 posts
 
Audiofun,

It was told one of the Audio Note DACS was from England..I'm not sure about the other one. It's too bad the processing power necessary for high rez files is beyond the bidat or its mods. I hope one day that John Wright will come out with his own universal DAC because I believe the price and performance would be quite competitive.

The fact that the Playback Design exhibits no pre or post ringing really has me intrigued. It could be a killer. Have you come to a final verdict on the MSB vs. Bidat?
audiofun OP
669 posts
 
I am getting close on the MSB, here is the what I am finding. The unit is very refined and I know I keep saying that like a broken record. The reason is that I am not happy with the amount of treble energy. I find that the vocal region seems to be (almost spotlighted) more prominent than the energy in the treble region. I remembered reading something like this and so I googled MSB review Platinum and found the old Stereophile review of the original Platinum dac which I believe contained the 1st generation of there in-house designed R2R ladder dac. Now granted the power dac has the 2nd Generation dacs and a much more powerful digital filter, but man... the reviewer described exactly what I was hearing in the treble. It is not bad by any stretch of the imagination so don't get me wrong. It is simply a presentation I am not comfortable with.

To be fair I spoke to one of there engineers and Vince (a great guy by the way) who suggested I order new batteries. I did so ,but they won't arrive until Wed or Thursday of this week (which is why this review was delayed and even now I am doing so with pause). I did open the unit last evening and measured the voltages on all 5 batteries (without the unit being connected to the charger which could give a false read) and they were all at spec, so next I made sure all the connection were tight and that the voltage at the terminals was the voltage sent to the circuit board. All was good. I did note that the treble seemed to improve after placing the unit back in the system.

Now comes the other bad thing... :) I had been listening to the DCC-1 (Museatex) on input 3 only. Well whilst comparing the MSB and DCC-1 I decided to try it on input 1 (1 and 3 are both TOS). OK....I can hear it coming, but I am telling you there was a huge difference. The number 1 input was much fuller than the number 3 input. I tired number 2 but it sounded identical to 3. So perhaps the receiver for the num 1 input is further from the mains or some EMI/RFI interference...I don't know but I know what my ears told me.

So, now the one advantage that I thought the MSB had over the DCC-1 (fuller, weightier more refined) is nill. I am now listening to the DCC-1.

I will of course reserve final judgment until the new batteries arrive and are installed and (thought they come pre-charged) have charged for at least an hour to make sure they are topped-off.

One other thing, one of the guys at MSB (when I described what I was hearing) stated that it was something in my system. When I informed him that I owned 5 dacs and had many others in for eval with ONLY the MSB displaying this behavior that argument went out the window.

I am having fun though :)
vhiner
533 posts
 
Audiofun,

Fascinating. Thanks for the update.

Don't let anyone tell you you're nuts about the input issue. I have had similar issues with placement of digital interconnects in relation to interconnects and power cords (something that Robert Harley himself has written about).I know of one Bidat owner who has to routinely re-set his unit so that the "c-lock" mechanism will properly lock with the transport. He gets "sound" without doing this, but the difference when the "lock" has properly occured is substantial. Another friend of mine once referred to the building and creation of DACS as a "dark art." Based upon my experience, this is true and little things can really make a difference.

I don't know if you've ever placed a serious after market powercord on any of your DACS, but you might be surprised by the effect. Several of us Bidat owners have found Shunyata Helix or CX cords to mate very well with the unit.
audiofun OP
669 posts
 
Vhiner: The finest power cord I have ever used (on everything: pre/amp/Bidat...etc) is the FIM Gold (the original, I know nothing about the sound of the CRL but I was told by one of the original owners of FIM that when it changed over the CRL the formula for the cables changed a bit. The FIM cords, though stiff and a ROYAL PAIN!!! to work with are the REAL DEAL and make a massive difference :)
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