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Bidat vs Perfect Wave vs Weiss and others

This is thread I started a while ago and promised in February i would start doing some real world comparative testing using the Bidat (Plus Mod) as the ref. The units under test are to include in no specific order the MSB Platinum Dac, the Weiss Minervera and the Playback Design player. I posted this under the follow-up of the original thread and it is there is you do a search under Digital for "ps audio perfect". I can't understand why it did not 'promote' to the top of the digital section as it did in the past whenever there was a new contribution, so I have started a new related thread with the first entry of my fun (and I hope edifying comparative experiences).
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Ok, I just got a broken in Weiss Minerva (several hundred hours at least). It has been in my system burning in for about 18 hours (18 hours since arriving in my home, time to come to thermal equilibrium). I have done some comparative listening to the Museatex Dcc-1 (a rarely known digital preamp 19 bit dual differential type) using glass Tos on both and then glass on the DCC1 vs a very expensive (can't name it yet as the manufacturer has not released it...sorry :( ) Firewire on the Weiss. I have a Mac Mini (2007 model) 2.0 ghz Core2Duo with 4Gig of ram running Leopard (although this model can only see 3.01 gig of that (I used 4gig as the memory transfer is optimized when the mem modules are the same). I also have a 1TB NAS (all over wifi). I am of course going to reserve final judement until a bit later.

I will be comparing the Museatex Bidat with the Plus Mod later this weekend. As a teaser, I will go on record and say that honestly at this point I don't agree with the stellar reviews concerning the Weiss Minerva.

It is resolute, almost technicolor but just to give you a short glimpse of what I am hearing, I could imagine a well healed vinyl person listening to Holly Cole on vinyl and then listening to the Weiss (playing the same in CD format) and saying "this is why I will never leave vinyl". Now that may sound harsh, but this is a hobby and I don't have a dog in the race, I am just reporting my ears findings.

I listened to a few high resolution files 176.4/24 and 96/24 but what I heard was a really clear highly resolved soul-less rendition of the music. It never ever made me smile or relax into the music the way the DCC-1/Bidat or even my former (when I actually spun cd's...wow time flies) stellar Dynavox Dynastation 2 (the finest CD player I have ever heard).

In a nutshell (at this point) it just sounds like digital and that aint good in my camp because I am not forgetting about the gear and just listening to the music. I don't like syrupy or dark, I have heard plenty of players try to use that trick to sound musical. No, I look for something that is more elusive and few their be that find that magical combination when forging through the nether regions of the digital domain. I will continue listening to see if the Weiss surprises me :)

More to come...
audiofun
richard_stacy
686 posts
 
earflappin...

i use logitech transporter so it is a wireless stream. certainly the digital cable is cleaning up some of the issues that could be there too. downside is the limitation to 24/96 but i have little above that, for now. i am alsways looking for a better way but i have gotten so use to the convenience as well as the interface. i find the quality to be quite satisfying and man do i love this dac. i also run direct to my amplifier.

i did some searches after i posted and found a quote from michael ritter in another forum where he talked about the converter. it was pretty old so this must have been in the works for some time. thats pricey for what it is!
earflappin
87 posts
 
richard_stacy,

Thanks for the further details of your set-up. Are you going AES or SPDIF BNC from the Transporter to the BADAC? I see that the Transporter supports both. I can't tell from the Transporter specs if they use galvanic isolation or not. If so, then you are no doubt a leg up on those who are going direct from an AES sound card into the BADAC.

I'll report back my experience with the modded HiFace 24/192 async USB to SPDIF interface. The guy who does the mod also has a heavily modded Transporter and he says the modded HiFace is better (i.e. lower jitter and noise). It should be, however, as the modded HiFace is being powered by 3.3v lithium batteries.

I also love my BADAC. On a price/performance basis I think it is hard to beat currently, but the competition is not standing still. If one is willing to contend with DB25 connectors and a DAW interface for set-up, then I suspect the MH ULN-8 could be better than the BADAC.

I hope Berkeley come out with a Beta DAC soon. My wish list for improvements would be: (1) discrete output stage (the Alpha has a pretty pedestrian opamp design), (2) better internal clock and (3) an async USB-to-I2S interface (as opposed to having to go async USB-to-AES-AES-to-I2S). Berkeley touts their belief that one should not house the format conversion circuitry in the same chassis as the DAC....why not design one unit with a double chassis....
richard_stacy
686 posts
 
earflappin...

i use the aes connection and have not tried the others. when i bought the dac i asked berkeley for their recommendation and they strongly encouraged the aes3 connection. another thing that really helps with the transporter is cleaning up the power. it seems more sensitive to power cables than most of my gear. i found this odd as i only use it as a tranport but most of this is odd! at present, i have an isoclean superfocus power cord to an acoustic revive rtp4 ultimate condtioner (that is one amazing device but thats another post...). a massive improvement.

your wishlist for the beta version is mostly over my head. i have considered an external clock and recently had a discussion with another member about the antelope clock. i have not heard this personally but he suggested it would be a significant improvement.

"If one is willing to contend with DB25 connectors and a DAW interface for set-up, then I suspect the MH ULN-8 could be better than the BADAC." i have no idea what any of this is!! you guys are a few steps ahead of me but this is another reason i enjoy reading your discussion. i do learn a great deal and it also gives me new directions to research.
earflappin
87 posts
 
Power supply quality is a key determinant of ultimate sound quality since audio is transmitted as modulated power. The Transporter is a fine product, but it is built to a price point and compromises have to be made by the designers. The fact that you have found power cables and conditioning to have a very audible impact points to the stock power supplies being a weak link. No surprise - one of the more popular mods for the Transporter is improving the power supplies. Clocking performance is especially sensitive to power supply quality which in turns effects jitter. Properly implemented - better power should result in lower jitter and noise which means better sound quality.

Externally clocking the Transporter could make an improvement for sure. The only way to know is to experiment. The Antelope OCX is a great clock. For less than half the price you might also try the Black Lion Audio Microtec Mk2. You can buy both the Antelope and BLA products with 15-30 day right of return from various e-tailers.

Bottom line, I suspect you could get even better sound quality from your BADAC by: (1) trying external word clock for the Transporter and (2) using an Antelope DA for AES noise isolation OR trying an outboard async USB-to-AES/SPDIF converter (which would require using a computer server). IME, noise isolation pays bigger dividends than improved clocking so I'd try an Antelope DA before an ext word clock.

If you don't suffer from OCD like most of us audiophiles (!) then just enjoy what you have and do nothing but enjoy the music...:-)
audiofun OP
669 posts
 
Ok, so my Bidat showed up today the very latest mod from John Wright. With only about 30 minutes on the clock I will say that I find it a bit more musical than the MSB. It was wierd it was like it clicked when the components inside started heating up. I have compared redbook (Jane Monheit) so far and the Bidat renders her more beautifully. On 24/96 material downsampled by itunes, they are very close but when I allow the MSB to play the same material at 96khz one can readily hear the increase in spatial information.

I will let it cook for the next few days and report back this wknd but so far I am very glad I had the mod done... Man the Bidat is an incredible machine...
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