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Bidat vs Perfect Wave vs Weiss and others

This is thread I started a while ago and promised in February i would start doing some real world comparative testing using the Bidat (Plus Mod) as the ref. The units under test are to include in no specific order the MSB Platinum Dac, the Weiss Minervera and the Playback Design player. I posted this under the follow-up of the original thread and it is there is you do a search under Digital for "ps audio perfect". I can't understand why it did not 'promote' to the top of the digital section as it did in the past whenever there was a new contribution, so I have started a new related thread with the first entry of my fun (and I hope edifying comparative experiences).
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Ok, I just got a broken in Weiss Minerva (several hundred hours at least). It has been in my system burning in for about 18 hours (18 hours since arriving in my home, time to come to thermal equilibrium). I have done some comparative listening to the Museatex Dcc-1 (a rarely known digital preamp 19 bit dual differential type) using glass Tos on both and then glass on the DCC1 vs a very expensive (can't name it yet as the manufacturer has not released it...sorry :( ) Firewire on the Weiss. I have a Mac Mini (2007 model) 2.0 ghz Core2Duo with 4Gig of ram running Leopard (although this model can only see 3.01 gig of that (I used 4gig as the memory transfer is optimized when the mem modules are the same). I also have a 1TB NAS (all over wifi). I am of course going to reserve final judement until a bit later.

I will be comparing the Museatex Bidat with the Plus Mod later this weekend. As a teaser, I will go on record and say that honestly at this point I don't agree with the stellar reviews concerning the Weiss Minerva.

It is resolute, almost technicolor but just to give you a short glimpse of what I am hearing, I could imagine a well healed vinyl person listening to Holly Cole on vinyl and then listening to the Weiss (playing the same in CD format) and saying "this is why I will never leave vinyl". Now that may sound harsh, but this is a hobby and I don't have a dog in the race, I am just reporting my ears findings.

I listened to a few high resolution files 176.4/24 and 96/24 but what I heard was a really clear highly resolved soul-less rendition of the music. It never ever made me smile or relax into the music the way the DCC-1/Bidat or even my former (when I actually spun cd's...wow time flies) stellar Dynavox Dynastation 2 (the finest CD player I have ever heard).

In a nutshell (at this point) it just sounds like digital and that aint good in my camp because I am not forgetting about the gear and just listening to the music. I don't like syrupy or dark, I have heard plenty of players try to use that trick to sound musical. No, I look for something that is more elusive and few their be that find that magical combination when forging through the nether regions of the digital domain. I will continue listening to see if the Weiss surprises me :)

More to come...
audiofun
audiofun OP
669 posts
 
Hi guys, I know it has been along long time since I posted on this thread. Some things have changed. I still have the MSB power Dac and i sold the Bidat. I reluctantly sold my Bidat but... the MSB with the new m2Tech EVO was sooooo good I found myself listening to the MSB 90% of the time.
I have since sold the EVO which was noticeably better than the HiFace :)
Actually so much better, I could no longer listen the HiFace, thus I sold it.

I have now sold the EVO and I have just paid for (waiting on delivery) the new 24/192 Diverter.., can't wait!!!!!!

Do I miss my Bidat? Yes and No... I miss some of the vinyl like things it did, but in the end as the MSB continued to break in, the musicality with the resolution was just too much to ignore. I still use PM as the audio engine along with iTunes as the jukebox, BUT!!! I bought a Music First Audio Ref passive Pre and let me tell you.... That combination is killer!!!

Smooth and resolute with some ineffable quality which is akin to the beauty of the Bidat without any coloration.., just a marvelous piece of gear.

I had a PS Audio Dac about a month ago with the bridge installed. I did a head to head comparison with the MSB on RB and hiRes. I used glass tos and the Bridge.

The PWD is very nice and especially when you look at what you can pick them up for, it can be the center of a very nice system.

Now to the Guts of it.... The built in volume control of the PWD simply does NOT cut the mustard! It is ok if you're in a pinch but it would NEVER be my choice for long term. The volume control in PM (I have found that no dither is FAR FAR better than using dither) is so far beyond the PWD's volume control words will not do justice :)

How didit compare to the MSB? In a word... It got SMOKED!!!!!!

It simply is not in the league of a Bidat/AMR77/AMR777 or obviously a MSB.

Now having said that, it was listenable and with the right ancillaries.., probably very livable (that is if you couldn't hear the other units).

I will say this, it was no where near as awful to MY ears as the Weiss Minerva was. If you recall from way back when I started this thread I flat out HATE the sound of that Dac.

The PWD is certainly NOT bad, it just isn't on the same level as the other dacs I mentioned.

Until next time.....

Perhaps I'll have a playback design Dac in the near future :)
vhiner
533 posts
 
Audiofun,

Great to hear an update! Glad you're happy with the MSB.

I have to put in my two cents about a few things. I've never used the Bridge, but I have extensive experience with the Bidat (sold mine a few months back) and the PW DAC and PW transport. When used with a Harmonic Tech HDMI cable, the PW DAC and PW transport SMOKE the Bidat. With all due respect and in the spirit of lively debate, I wouldn't use a glass toslink to drive a radioshack cd player through a $200 DAC; every good DAC system requires the right digital connection and the PW DAC works best with the HT Audio only HDMI or CAT 6, something many users will attest to. BTW, I just heard the latest Bel Canto DAC hooked up to an Computer source via toslink and it was NOT pretty. So, I'm not prepared to say I know what that unit sounds like. The Bel Canto is best with a SPDIF or CAT 6 connection, according to those I've spoken with.

You've found just the right wire and connections for your MSB. Comparisons with other DACS will only be fair if those units are similarly set up with wire that serves those units best. The MSB may well be a superior DAC, but I just wanted to voice a caution to those who haven't made the comparisons themselves or who may plan to. For example, wouldn't predict my old beloved BIDAT would place well if it were hooked up to a lousy power word and an ordinary Canare digital cable any more than i would put crappy tires on a Porshe and expect it to go the distance.

Again, I'm not commenting on whether the MSB is better than the PW DAC 'cause I haven't heard that particular MSB, but I do know how a super modded Bidat sounds compared to a properly set up PW DAC. The PW DAC is just as musical, provides more detail, has a more analog top end, deeper bass and a much wider soundstage. At least that's what my ears tell me. ;-)

Once thing I *do* agree with you about with respect to the PW DAC is that the volume control is not optimal, but neither was the Bidat's and neither is any DAC volume fix I've ever heard. I ALWAYS prefer a good tube preamp with my musical meal.
audiofun OP
669 posts
 
Hey man good to hear from you and see that found my update to this old thread :)

Your points are well taken.., but... I used the VERY good glass Tos on the MSB and the CAT 6 cable from my airport extreme into the bridge of the PWD. I never tried the Tos into the PWD.

Mileage may vary.., but those were my findings :)
fiddler
581 posts
 
Have to agree with Vhiner. It seems everyone who as heard the PWD says that it is apples to oranges with the right HDMI cable.

I was about ready to give up on the PWT/HDMI/PWD/ due to an upper mid-range glare. But after hundreds and I mean hundreds of hours, the glare finally went away. I then inserted a Fusion Romance IC between my PWD and my amp and you couldn't prior the the PWT/PWD/Fusion Romance out of my hands now.

The PWT/PWD is considerably better than my Forsell Air Reference Transport/highly modified Audio Note DAC combo.
vhiner
533 posts
 
Touche' my friend. However I was referring to your comparison of the PW DAC and the BIDAT. I guess mileage does vary.
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