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EE Minimax Plus DAC vs. Rega DAC

This comparison was done using a Cambridge Audio 840c CDP (as transport) and newest Mac Mini running Pure Music HD files. Cables were Cardas.
The system is my friends: Vandersteen 5a's fed by the ARC DSi integrated amp.

The Rega DAC has at least 300 hours on it now and was using a inexpensive Pangea power cord, which makes it sound a tad brighter than the stock cord. The EE Minimax Plus was 100% stock. The EE Minimax Plus belongs to my friend and has 150 hours on it (aprox).

Out of the Gate:
The Minimax sounded sweeter and a bit more refined (smoother) at the top end, loaded with detail, and yet not fatiguing at all. The Rega sounded flatter, neutral and a bit less engaging to us initially. On the other hand the Rega's midrange and overall image was excellent. The layered effect on classical tracks was better with the Rega and we continue to love it's overall coherent ability to create a soundstage across a wide soundfield. The Minimax Plus still exhibited a bit of thickness, (Easy to spot on male vocals on SE of Tumbleweed Connection or Lyle Lovett' I love Everybody), but it was not on the same distracting level as with the original Minimax. Still, this chesty quality was present much of time and it took some getting used to.

Extended Listening
Using the 840c: The Rega is dryer, neutral. At times we felt it was more accurate, but not always more fun. It sounds very analogue. The Minimax also sounded like analogue and added a sweetness to some old tracks when the Rega just let them all hang out. Fed with older recordings we preferred the Minimax much of the time. A perfect example was Bob Dylan CD's, which sounded a little harsh with the Rega. But when we put better recordings it was a closer race. My friend felt the Rega was creating a sense of realism missing from the Minimax Plus. His exact words: "The Rega makes a live recording sound live while the Minimax sweetens it out and it's just not the same." On the other hand I dug what the Minimax was doing with the highest frequencies. It seemed to have them under control, while the Rega just let them shine through too brightly. If the Minimax was forcing some sonic character at the high end I like it a lot anyway. Both DACs were SO CLOSE that we usually found ourselves having to check which one was on at times. The differences were very subtle overall.

Using the Mac Mini and some HD tracks was a whole new battle. The Mini is well configured with memory and most of the stuff in the BG turned off. Software is Pure Music. The Rega DAC was fed with the Musical Fidelity V-Link convertor since it's USB is limited to 16 bit files. This is a inexpensive convertor and it's far from the top pick. We also used it on the Minimax plus.
After listening with the CDP the Mac sounded as if it had a slight edge to the highest frequencies. At times we weren't sure, but we agreed it wasn't a negative, just different. The Mac produced a dead-quiet blackness between notes that made things sound a bit dark until we were used to it. The Rega and Minimax Plus seemed even more evenly matched as the pairing made the Minimax sound leaner in the midbass, which was something we were liking more and more about the Rega. The Rega still retained an edge in resolving the venue in live recordings, but the Minimax evened things up with it's superb sweet high end yet again. Listening to Eva Cassidy's live album we were both liking the Rega's presentation better. 20 minutes later we were listening to Anne Sophie Mutter (HD) and her playing was sweet beyond words with the Minimax besting the Rega on that recording. Oddly we preferred the Minimax with the tube switched out as we did with the first unit. Bass was better on the Minimax without the tube for us. Male vocals could sound "chesty" even congested on the Minimax Plus with the tube, less so in SS mode. The owner of the unit agreed that his previous audition of the unit agreed with what I was hearing, but said unit had been tube-rolled with some improvement. The Rega's bass was tight and a bit deeper than the Minimax, but we really thought the quality of bass was pretty much the same.

Image and Soundstage
The Rega seems to pursue this goal more than the other DACs we've heard. It really makes the speakers vanish (on SOME recordings). The Minimax tries to match this ability, but comes in short. For studio stuff it didn't matter a lot of the time. On live recordings the Rega had the edge.

Conclusion
It's hardly a fun answer, but....Pick one! I had a slight preference for the Minimax plus and my friend liked the Rega better. Maybe we were just being polite as it was a very even match-up. He likes a lot of live jazz and that's where we agreed the Rega was king. But I listen to some older rock with less than ideal recording efforts and the Minimax did something beautiful to those recordings. It also handled strings in a way that could make a grown man cry. The Rega created a "room" of music...it's ability to expose distances between instruments with precision was very impressive. The Minimax seemed to pursue musicality above accuracy. Perhaps the best way to put it is that the Minimax Plus was more forgiving in his system. If you're waiting for me to declare a winner....don't hold your breath! For my Merlin speakers I think the Rega was the right choice. The TSM's are speakers that expose midrange like few others and the Rega compliments that very well. Another item some folks would want to consider is that the Minimax Plus can be tried with other tubes, but I find the Rega's 5 filter settings of more value.
As I always say, be very suspicious of anyone claiming that the Rega, Minimax or W4S or even Dacmagic are far better than others in their ranges. The absolute truth is that these units are excellent and are not seriously dominated by DACs we've heard costing much more. If you hear these DACs in the same system back-to-back and have the ability to hear small nuances you'll soon learn that they all have strengths and weaknesses, but generally sound quite close. The DAC I liked the least (W4S 2) was still excellent and would be fine in my system. Of course that's not what we read shootouts for. We want a winner, but it's silly to think that everyone would hear what I heard in a different room with different gear. For what little it's worth I prefer the cosmetics of the Minimax Plus over the Rega. It has more of a high end look. As I plan to add the Rega Apollo R CPD/Transport, the Rega stack may even that score a bit. Owners of either unit may take exception to my comments, but I think we all know that either unit can be tweaked by settings, tubes, power cords and so on. The point here was to compare the units initial character. Bottom line: You cannot go wrong with either.

Cheers,

Rob
robbob
njs
30 posts
 
My guess is that a large majority of audiophiles have performed a variety of tasks on their expensive gear far more challenging than removing, then aligning, and inserting a chip or two. Many more have done this sort of thing routinely with their computer gear.

With that said, were you to have the slightest hesitation about approaching an opamp swamp, you should clearly refrain from so doing as an error will prove expensive and disappointing for the mistake prone.
tubegroover
2,279 posts
 
Thank you Al for your feedback and I would also like to emphasize Foster9's comments. I have had some communication with Bill of Morningstar concerning just this practice. He has had a few issues with diyers poking inside the DAC and in some cases causing damage to the unit to his great concern. It seems to me that many are performing this tweek with little or no knowledge of precautions and procedures that should be used. I would caution DON'T do it unless you know what you are doing regardless of how seemingly simple it seems. If you want to change out op-amps and you are not technically savvy enough to understand the possible consequences, leave it to someone that knows. Regardless, the warranty becomes void.
tubegroover
2,279 posts
 
Jult52 to give you a general answer, I would think that as with any component the design of the output and power supply would come into greater play than the chip used. In a budget product it isn't so much the chip used, relatively cheap compared to a more sophisticated power supply. I personally feel that the ess Sabre 9018 chip is certainly more resolving but having said that it will not overcome a compromised output and power supply that can be better implemented in a more expensive DAC. The bottom line is none of these budget products are giant killers although the W4S at a bit more in cost gives you a discrete regulated FET output with a well designed power supply, you get what you pay for. Notice the weight of the unit compared to a budget product where price is the major consideration. The proof is in the listening, you decide.
douglas_schroeder
1,824 posts
 
Let's consider this my unofficial Opamp rolling discussion, seeing as how Morningstar has concerns about it.

I was so pleased with the results of Opamp rolling last night I am motivated enough to delay my morning workout a few minutes to pen, err... write... err, type this up.

Ah glorious joy! You can get the same benefit for the EE DAC Plus that was obtainable with the original via Opamp rolling! Alex Yeung has kept the circuit board it appears pretty much unchanged in regards to the four opamps, at least when it comes to Opamp rolling. i.e. the pairs are still labeled U1 & U2 and U6 & U7. They are located smack in the middle of the board in plain sight. They all are socketed (I was under the impression prior to the release of this unit that only two of the four would be socketed. With all four "rollable" this is terrific news for the audiophile community!).

Last night I rolled in 8620's into the U1/U2 positions and 827's into the U6/U7 positions. SWEET! Just like last time with the original, superb improvements. How superb? Game changing potential for an entire rig. You can literally take a system you do not like the sound of and with Opamp rolling turn it into one which you do like the sound.

Now, if it's too much trouble to secure a $4 tool, to protect against static, take a lid off the unit, pull out four Opamps and carefully push in four new ones - well, then so be it. Your loss. :(

Well, actually, it's not a loss as you will still have your wonderful sound of the stock unit - you just won't have anywhere near what this unit, or your system, could be.

With these new Opamps installed I pulled the tube out and ran it SS. With very little time in the assessment my first incination is that this maneuver failed the Law of Efficacy; I didn't hear a marked improvement over the quality with the tube in the socket. I'll probably repeat the test and may change my opinion; as I said, it was a quick take.

But the Opamp upgrade is something of which I would assert if you do so and cannot hear a difference then you have either a rig which is far below top quality sound to dig out the differences and/or hearing loss. There is a high degree of likelihood that if a person can't hear such a change as this then they do have hearing loss. I would also suggest that for such a person they not bother wasting their time on tweaks because that person will not hear them, their hearing deficiency will dictate that for them such things are not sufficient enough to perceive.

I would expect that for approx. 20% or even more of people coducting such a tweak as this Opamp rolling may not be able to hear the difference or consider it to be of little benefit. In fact, the benefit of this Opamp rolling is nearly exponential in terms of the potential to benefit a rig. The more "powerful" as in capable you rig is, the better the result will be and it can be every bit as compelling as a component or entire cable suite change.

Case in point, I built a system yesterday which has very fine components which no one with any experience in the high end would dismiss, yet the system was unsatisfactory, very thin and tilted to the top in an unacceptable manner. With only the Opamp change the rig's character completely changed such that this same pairing of gear was now far weightier, lush and approaching an ideal balance between the top/mid/bottom. That may sound incredible or unbelievable, but those who have Opamp rolled will nod in agreement; it certainly is possible.

An exercise like this should humble an audiophile to hear how much a rig can be improved by such seemingly (i.e. "I don't think it would make that much difference," you know, the classic arrogant line.) insignificant gestures. It also shows how much more can be wrested from a rig before throwing in the towel and swapping components. I'm not impressed by the majority of oddities posing as significant tweaks; this is not of the same ilk. This is a serious improvement worthy of the time/$.

But, hey, you've probably heard it before - IT WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY! So, there you have it, the great spectre of fear and forbidding on one hand, the potential for glorious advancement on the other.

In reality the audiophile community should be discussing the stock original and Plus Minimax DACs and the Opamp enhanced ones nearly as different products, the change is so dramatic between them. While I have not compared the Minimax to some of the other currently hot DACs it is not to be concluded that if the stock unit falls short Opamp rolling would be of little use/benefit. That would be imo a very poor conclusion.

Finally, thanks to Gianc, who prodded me by his posts here on the Gon and was enthusiastically helpful to me in identifying the placement of the Opamps; saved me a lot of time and effort. Having rolled Opamps in the unit prior it took about five minutes or less to install the new ones. In addition, Gianc is one of the most genial of Audiogoners I've conversed with. :)
tubegroover
2,279 posts
 
Hi Doug

So is what you are saying that changing out the op-amps adds weight and a maybe a densier tonality to the presentation of the Plus?
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