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The Emperor DAC has no Clothes

I currently use the Rega DAC in a system comprised of Merlin TSM-MXr speakers on Skylan stands. Amp is the Manley Stingray II tube amp. Oppo CD player and Mac Mini feeds the Rega DAC with Pure Music and Cardas cables. My friends system is currently using an ARC integrated with Vanderteen 5a's. He's had the W4S Dac II, EE Minimax Plus, ARC 8 DAC and is currently trying out another borrowed Rega because I won't loan him mine again!

In recent weeks we've tried these DACs in both systems, tweaked and tried various setups. I posted in another thread that the Rega won out against the Minimax Plus and the W4S 2 and that he was partial to the little Centrance.

So here's the thing. The Rega and the ARC sound pretty much the same. So does the W4S 2 and the Minimax. We STRUGGLE to hear the tiny differences between these units! And by "struggle" I mean we use top level recordings and LISTEN LIKE MANIACS again and again. 99% of the time we could not pick these units apart. 100% of the we find that we could be happy with ANY of them! Of course there was a preference for the Rega and the ARC, but boy was it slight! The smallest tweak could shift the balance. A different set of cables, speakers or higher ceiling could easily effect things.

Between the two of us we have something like 65 years of experience with audio. I find it absolutely hilarious when someone posts that a DAC sounds "much" better than another DAC. How is it that we can't hear the same thing, nor can ANY of our friends? We certainly hear a HUGE difference in speakers and amps and very audible ones with cables. But GOOD stand-alone DACs appear to be doing a very good job. MOST people simply list the one or two they've heard in stores as their favorites. If you're looking for a "safe bet" in a DAC you can go with ANY of the models I mentioned above or some of the other fine units out there. Unless someone has your exact system, in the same room and your precise tastes, try not to worry overmuch about DAC A blowing away DAC B.

This was most apparent in trying out the EE Minimax Plus. He tried various tubes and it always sounded best in SS mode! And in that mode it sounded quite like all of the others and about as good as the much less expensive Centrance. So the point of this is to put your efforts and money into speakers and amp/pre. That's 95% of the type of sound you'll get. They determine the character of the system more than anything else.

Cheers!

Rob
robbob
nonoise's avatar
nonoise
4,382 posts
 
Thank you Rob for pulling back the curtain.

I like my Centrance enough to not go on that never ending quest.

All the best,
Nonoise
sibelius
256 posts
 
My DAC rules:

1) Almost all DAC's have to choose between a few main chipsets. Right now, Wolfson and Sabre tend to be two of the more popular ones. Find out if you tend to prefer one particular chipset over another.

2) Don't spend megabucks on DAC's. We are talking about technology that churns quickly. I view my DAC like I view my laptop.

3) Try and find a DAC that is flexible regarding tweaking.

I bought the EE Minimax Plus because I prefer the Sabre chip to the Wolfson, the price is affordable ($1100) and the EE DAC allows a good deal of tweaking (SS or tube mode, easy Opamp changes). I fully expect that I will probably purchase a new DAC in a 2-3 year time period.
meiwan
399 posts
 
I use the Calyx dac having replaced the original EE minimax. Must admit the Calyx is more open/airly than the EE. Also had a take home experience with the EE and the Moon 300d. Actually quite a different presentation via my iMac/pure music.

However, for TV watching i bought a little Brik DAC ($200) and hooked it up to my NAD blue ray player and Moon i1 amp. Wired up so that I could switch back and forth between the internal NAD dac and the Brik. Absolutely no difference. Then I hooked up the Calyx and did the same thing. Struggled to find a difference, although the Calyx was a little smoother.

My take is the source (player) and front end cables make a 'huge' difference in whether or not DACs sound the same or different.
mrtennis
3,295 posts
 
as have said in the past, the placebo effect is alive and well. you can convince yourself that component a sounds better than component b.

someone else may come along and disagree.

however, i think that when it comes to tubes, there are differences.

i find it hard to believe that a ss piece sounds like a classic tube component.

one more thing, regarding the minimax sounding better in solid state mode.

no one says in what respects the sss mode sounds better.

in my opinion "better" is one of the more misued words in the english language. i think it means "i prfere". it's just a way of saying "in my opinion i prefer" . however, it leaves a sense of ambiguity because since better is so subjective, there is no communication.

so, all i ask, is when someone says a sounds better than b, describe the differnces, please.
david12
1,398 posts
 
It seems to me having followed DAC threads for a while and listening to a few, that a lot of the differences may arise out of connections. DACs and computer audio seem unique in having a plethora of connections, partly because many of them have real problems. These lie of course, in jitter, clocking, whether the clocks in the DAC or computer are utilised as in Synchronous and Asyncronous USB, for example.

May not a lot of the difference be in the care in implementing firwire SPDIF or USB connections and which connection is best to the source?
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