Preamps built Into DACs

"I am currently using the digital VC in my Trinnov processor, and according to the manufacturer at 50db attenutation I am losing information."

Isn't loss of information a gradual thing with any volume control as the signal is attenuated? I don't think it just suddenly happens at some point. Attenuation might occur at different frequencies at slightly different rates for example with an analog control.

However each volume control, analog or digital might attenuate the signal slightly differently at each step, so no two necessarily are created equal. I would expect digital attenuation done right to be as good or perhaps even superior in terms of linearity and presenting what can be presented at any particular volume well.

Again, I suspect that this is another case where digital gets a bad rap categorically for no good reason. There has to be both good and bad digital and analog volume controls. ANy company that cares about good digital sound quality should be able to do it both well and in an affordable manner these days based on available technology. The technical challenge of implementing a good digital volume control algorithm would seem to be trivial compared say to the challenges of managing jitter as needed in real time during playback, IMHO.

Agree again. At the end of the day, all designs involve compromise. I don't really care if a VC is digital, analog, or hybrid, but just how it sounds. It stands to reason that with the advances in digital technology the gap has narrowed, and DCS digital VC in their 100K DAC suggest when you pull out all the stops, a digital VC can be superior or equivalent to the best that can be achieved analog. This is encouraging because digital technology tends to trickle down very fast. But again, the proof is in the hearing. FWIW, in the Stereophile review, out of the DCS debussy, Weiss 202 and Bel Canto 3.5, the reviewer preferred Bel Canto, which has Digital VC (the Weiss has not). The reviewer never even mentioned it - just reported what he was hearing.

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After reading all of the above, the high end tube preamp is the way to go for me. In five years as digital technology continues to evolve, I'll revisit the feasibility of using the preamp section of a DAC.
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"The besst overall solution is to use a good volume system to reduce the volume to listening levels and then adjust finely for each track using -0 to -9dB of digital volume. Works like a champ."

I agree this is probably the best strategy in most cases today.

I try to keep the volume control on my Squeezebox Touch controls at max normally, then set my preamp volume to desired volume level for most tracks. Then I use the TOuch VC if needed to lower the volume a touch if needed from there, especially for louder recorded tracks. A bonus with a device like SB Touch is that remotes, computers, tablets, handhelds or any wireless device with a web browser can be used to tweak the volume down on the Touch from anywhere in the house as needed.

Mapman - Look, I have used a few digital volume controls, including the one in the DEQX, iTunes and Amarra. By far, Amarra is the best sounding volume software so far, and it starts to affect the SQ at more than -9dB. I can hear this because I have on of the most resolving systems on the planet. I clearly hear lyrics in tracks that noone else can make-out.

In most peoples systems they will probably not hear this effect until maybe -20 dB or more. This is due to the fact that there is so much other noise, distortion and compression in the typical system that these effects are masked. This masking can be caused by jitter from the source, active preamps and even poor amplifiers.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio