$800 Cartridge Shootout and Upgrade Path

Live to 2-track or die!!!

Woo hoo! This is the kickenest thread! I really dug Artar's Husserlian Foggy Mountain Breakdown vis a vis the turntable qua analog reproduction system. And twl's Q.E.D. response to those dodging the breakdown to posit the superiority of the cartridge. Even in the face of Derrida(R.I.P 2004) dealing with the problem of language and its separation from meaning(which is bogging us all down) we strive to communicate our intentions with the very specific goals concerning the reproduction of music.

I have learned a lot concerning the viability of my own approach to the problem and feel that what I have learned here as validated where I had been, and focused where I am going. I spoke as if I had narrowed my choices down but it was bluster, and I was unsure, but what I have learned here has firmed that up. There's nothing like getting the experimental data of others to vindicate your own conclusions. I feel a little like Watson and Crick stealing the x-ray data from Rosalind Krause on their way to the helical structure and Sweden for the Nobel; as I nab from Doug, Twl, Dan_ed,Artar and others as I will make my way to Denver. For the time being I will refer to this as the holy land of analog and if Teres and Galibier will let me have a listen, I will let my ears do the deciding up front and in person. Phenomenologically speaking if I may.

I feel guilty for leaving the cartridge out of this however. Too be honest I kinda want to slap on my current Benz with the new rig and see what I think before I up the ante. Call it my own experiment but I think that it's one way to have fun if you aren't too dogmatic about the ride. And it is about fun init? Listening to music and all?

As someone pointed out the records are the real deal but I disagree with the recording quality since I feel the musical quality is the thing. I own some records that sound like they were recorded in a garbage can with a wire attached to a dixie cup and they sound mighty fine to these ears! And on a good system I can tell you if it's a 30 or 55 gallon can and whether that dixie cup was paper or wax covered!

Funny bringing that up, I started counting how many LP's, singles and CD's I had and what it's value was compared to my system. The result? Well, I do know that the replacement value of my collection would way supercede the value of my system. As for what I paid? I don't know. I got some stuff pretty cheap back in the day. I do know that I spend more on equipment than music these days but partially because the the growth of my collection has always superceded my ability to listen to it all. I've tons of stuff still sealed that I may never get to. Not that that stops me from buying.....

Most of my friends buy tons of records and have very basic rigs to play them on. But I get a kick out of playing some punk single on my system and watching their eyes light up when they realize that there is so much more there! (Prior to overproducing Nirvana's Nevermind, Butch Vig produced one of the great midwest punk singles, Mecht Mensche's "Acceptance" 7" which is as raw powerful and far from the jillion-track sound of Nevermind as you can imagine).

Sorry to ramble on but these were some of my thoughts on the current events. After I make my magical mystery tour to Colorado I will let everyone know what I thought and what I decided on my turntable decision. Bring the empirical data back to the fold.

As my school was fond of saying, there are no answers, only better questions......

Dear Dsiggia:".... see a real life issue I don't think you can solve with your reasoning; I don't think your logic can work for folks working on a budget up to $5K...".

Here are some examples of analog rig ( around $5K ) that you can blend according with what you want to hear:

Cartridges: Van den Hul: MC ONE SPECIAL,
Ortofon....: Kontrapunkt b.
Allaerts...: MC1ECO
Benz Micro.: M2
Clearaudio.: Victory
Lyra.......: Argo
Sumiko.....: Celebration
Transfiguration: Spirit MK3
Dynavector.: D172 MKII.

Tonearms: MOERCH: DP 6 or UP 4 ( both has interchangeable arm wands with different effective mass, so you can blend with any of those cartridges. )

Turntables: Transrotor: Atlantis.
Acoustic Signature: Final Tool.
Avid: Volvere.
Nottinngham: Space.
Roksan: Xerxes.
Thorens: 850 BC.
Wilson benesch: Circle.
Basis: 2001 Signature.
VPI: Scoutmaster.

Any of these combinations beats your analog system for a wide margin ( btw, hands down many of the anolog systems of the persons on this thread. ). Try it.
Regards and always enjoy the music.
Raul.

Is Raoul dismissing the Teres on purpose? I like the Teres. How could I hate a direct drive in drag? Which brings up the subject of the Creature. Raoul, the Creature kicks ass. It's in the 5K category when fffffffffully modded...

Raul,

You need to run the “numbers” before making specific recommendations in regards to Dsiggia’s theoretical budget of $5,000. Unless one was to buy used components, not always practical with analog, many of your suggestion combinations exceed $5,000. Times have changed and with them prices have gone up!

Since we have already discussed the need for a good arm, one that is both stable in the horizontal and vertical planes of movement when outfitted with a low-output, low-compliance cartridge, and in consideration of the equipment you have suggested, the Moerch DP-6 with the precision arm tubes is the best alternative. Its current cost in the United States is $1,890. Also keep in mind that each precision arm tube is $500 each.

Tonearm = $1,890 USD

Cartridges

Van den Hul MC ONE SPECIAL = $1,500

Ortofon Kontrapunkt B = $950 (On Sale for $675)

Allaerts MC1 ECO = $1,522

Benz Micro M2 = $1,295

Clearaudio Victory = $1,800

Lyra Argo = $1,195

Sumiko Celebration = $1,500

Transfiguration Spirit MK3 = $1,500

Dynavector D17 MKII = $750

With the exception of the Ortofon and Dynavector, all of the above cartridges are over $1,000, and some are way over this price.

Average Cartridge Price = $1,335

Turntables

Transrotor Atlantis A = $3,000

Acoustic Signature Final Tool = $2,500 (This price won’t hold for long.)

Avid Volvere Sequel = $4,000

Nottingham Space Deck = $1,800

Roksan Xerxes X = $3,500

Thorens TD 850 BC = $1,800

Wilson Benesch Circle = $2,400 (With Tonearm)

Basis 2001 Signature = $3,400

VPI Scoutmaster = $1,700 (Estimate without Tonearm)

Average Turntable Cost = $2,678

Cost Summary

System Range = $4340 to $7,690

System Average = $5,903 (A Budget Breaker)

The Raul Special = $5,685
(Includes the Acoustic Signature Final Tool, Moerch DP-6, and Benz Micro M2).

My Raul, you do have expensive tastes, especially when it comes to turntables!

So let’s take a sanity check: I like the Moerch arm, but I don’t like the Space Deck, Thorens, and VPI Scoutmaster; I would never buy these tables for myself. Of the cartridges listed above, I like the Benz Micro and the Dynavector. So let’s say I go with the Moerch and the Dynavector, which leaves the turntable. Of the tables that remain on my theoretical “short list,” I like Transrotor Atlantis, Acoustic Signature Final Tool, Avid Volvere Sequel, and Roksan Xerxes X, all of which have an average cost of $3,250. With the exception of the Final Tool, the others are more than I can afford.

Since we have blown the $5,000 limit, here is the Artar1 special:

Teres 255 = $2,775
Origin Live Illustrious = $2,400
Shelter 501 II = $800

Total $5,975

Raul, with $6,000 to work with, what’s your recommendation? And don’t blow the budget this time!