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Turntables New vs Used

Thought I would post this as possible food for thought. Have been in this hobby since 1957 and have owned a great many tables both new and used. My first audiophile table was a Dual 1019 and it has evolved from there.

I deal a lot in turntables both new and used, sort of a hobby business. With that in mind in recent years there has been several new tables to hit the market such as those from Music Hall,Project, and so on. Not all but most of the tables in the sub $1,000.00 range are just horrid to say the least. For what one pays in this category,one can find true stellar turntables in the used market.

Used tables from Sota,VPI and Rega will clearly outperform anything from Music Hall, Project and others.

This is not meant to disparage Music Hall or Project or others of the same category. But when one truly looks into what is available in the used market,it becomes readily apparent that the higher end used tables will sonically be superior to the new offerings.

I know for the last few months have had several of the Music Hall and Project tables as well as others come and go through the door.

To be candid there is no black art or voodoo science in turntable design. Physics and Geometry are basic law and are absolute with debate not being possible.

But many of these new tables have seem to have forgotton these basic laws and some of the new tables are pure dreck and I am being kind there.

Turntables from VPI,Sota,Rega,Nottingham,Bluenote,Clearaudio,JA Michell,and Simon Yorke offer tables that firmly place them among the best in the world,with sound engineering principles.

Plus the upgrade path is clearly there for future sonic improvements as materials and science come about.

In addition the price one will pay for one of the used tables make these some of the best bargains for today and tomorrow. However with all things used do make sure of whom you get it from and that you are getting what you pay for.

Don't overlook many of the excellent direct drive used tables from Denon,Kenwood,Yamaha,Technics and others. But do concentrate on thier upper end models forgoing the lower model line up.

All in all the current used market represents far greater value than most of the mass produced new tables.

For instance a Rega P3 is in my opinion is vastly superior to a Music Hall MMF 7 and at less cost, new price to new price. I know I have had both here in recent months. Used the Rega P 3 is a hands down winner in this category.

Both VPI and Sota are easily accessed via phone or e Mail and are most helpful in their product line.

The choice is yours and it is your money.
ferrari
ferrari OP
617 posts
 
I have owned a Linn table back in the late 70s and found it to be very good, although the suspension is far to compliant for my tastes as well as was most of the Thorens at the time. Overall the Linn product has not evolved much,but remains good value in the used market. But one has to be careful with Linn as they are delicate,and I have found them to be maintenance hogs. But nonetheless they do have very good sonics when paired with the right phono cartridge.

As far as B&O goes I am not a fan of B&O aside from the glitz and glamour cosmetics their is little to endure. B&0 tables means your stuck with using B&O phono cartridges only. B&O no longer makes these cartridges,but a private company has sprung up that makes B&O phono cartridges. Once one sees the inside of one of these tables and the parts quality there it is disheartening to say the least.Plus at this point in time parts for these tables are drying up quickly as B&O has withdrawn their service network and dealers. All B&O is now an in house affair with company based stores. And no one in these stores have a clue as to analog needs. My last experience with a B&O was the Beogram RX and that was one of the poorest excuses for a turntable I have seen, except for some of the B.I.C. tables of the late 70s.

I know their are some loyal B&O users out there and will probably be gored on this. If it works for you then, fine,but much better to be had and for gods sake don't spend more that $150.00 on one and when it breaks, as it will, just toss it,not worth the greif and aggravation of servicing.
lugnut
1,190 posts
 
Nice post Ferrari. I generally agree with everything you said. I also agree that the Linn is a great bargain on the used side as long as you get one of the better tonearms with it. I disagree somewhat about maintenance with a Linn. I suppose it matters to some degree depending upon how often you move it and if you do so inappropriately. Further, there is a great upgrade path and factory support is still there in spades. There is also an aftermarket supplying motors and speed controllers as well as a host of other tweak items. Since 1984 I've only needed to adjust my suspension one time, excepting when I upgraded to the Cirkus bearing. The only time I move my table is to install a new cartridge or like recently when I replaced the tonearm cable. I will admit that I'm now at a place where if I looked at everything in my system the table would be the next logical upgrade. Still, I have no compelling reason to do so. For those looking at buying a used Linn get one as maxed out and new as your budget will allow. I'd be more tempted to pay $2K for a later model with Cirkus, newer style Vahalla and a good tonearm than $1K for an older one which will show some miles on it and the usual upgrades will soon make it exceed the price of the newer one. Just my opinion and I certainly am not taking exception to your comments regarding the 70's era LP12's. I sold my older one prior to buying the one I now own because the older models had such cheesy power supplies and were not upgradeable.
viridian's avatar
viridian
4,184 posts
 
Your observations are quite correct, but do not address a very important aspect of purchasing a used turntable. In my experience, after large, floor-standing speakers, turntables are by far the hardest audio item to pack and ship correctly. I have bought many used turntables over the years and cannot stress this enough. Even the manufacturers original packing is often inadequite, Rega would be a good example. At this stage of the game, the advice I give to dear friends and those bigger than me who might hurt me, is to buy a used table locally, or a new one. I live in Portland, OR and have driven North as far as Seattle, and South to Salem just to avoid shipping tables. I would also add that if some arms are mishandled, the bearings can become flat-spotted, this is called Brinelling and is typically due to tortional forces applied during cartridge mounting. Many arms are pretty variable in terms of bearing play as well and the only way to determine this is in person. I am not sure that this is a game for the uninitiated.
ferrari OP
617 posts
 
I would dare say, do check your local market and see what is available,before having a table shipped. However if it is the case where the table has to be shipped, make very sure the seller knows the proper packing procedure. It is always very helpful if the owner has the original box with all the interior packing. All tables shipped must be doubled box with the outside box at least a double wall box with plenty of room to add foam cushioning to.

It does take time,care and expertise to properly pack a turntable. If the seller cannot do this, look elsewhere, its that simple. Since 1968 I have never lost a table to improper packing, mainly because I give a damn that it gets to you in the condition as described. The only loss I had was when UPS drove a fork lift through the boxes. Believe me UPS more than paid for that fiasco. I now use FedEx Ground Services and have found them less in cost, more reliable and packages arrive in far better condition.

No matter how good the deal is - pass on it if you feel the seller cannot ship the turntable safely. There is always another deal around the corner and someone that does know how to ship properly.
timrhu
2,778 posts
 
When considering buying used turntable I make sure the seller is going to pack properly before I agree. It has worked for me.
Question though, what is your opinion of Dual's line? Which models do you consider good vlue on used market. I purchased a used 503-? from fellow Audiogoner and was happy with its performance. I don't do as much vinyl as many here but do enjoy it for some music I don't own on cd.
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