Building high-end 'tables cheap at Home Despot II


“For those who want the moon but can't afford it or those who can afford it but like to have fun and work with their hands, I'm willing to give out a recipe for a true high-end 'table which is easy to do, and fun to make as sky's the limit on design/creativity! The cost of materials, including 'table, is roughly $200 (depending, more or less), and add to that a Rega tonearm. The results are astonishing. I'll even tell/show you how to make chipboard look like marble and fool and impress all your friends. If there's interest I'll get on with this project, if not, I'll just continue making them in my basement. The next one I make will have a Corian top and have a zebra stripe pattern! Fun! Any takers?”

The Lead in “Da Thread” as posted by Johnnantais - 2-01-04

Let the saga continue. Sail on, oh ships of Lenco!
mario_b
A Happy New Year to you all from Canada!! I have recently had some very interesting experiences with regards to both DDs and Idlers, and the effects and importance of Direct Coupling, having had the opportunity to compare the servo-controlled Sony 2250 - which according to common wisdom is an OK DD until one gets to the serious/classic Technics SP10 MKII (which is to DDs as the Garrards are to idlers according to the common wisdom) - and the Technics SP-10 MKII. Results have a bearing as well on the Lencos and their motors.

Both DDs were set up on plinths of equivalent mass and construction. While the Sony can be Direct Coupled, having, like the Garrard 301s, holes for bolts to pass through, the Technics SP-10 MKII sports integral bolts which must be tightened to the plinth from underneath. Construction of the Technics, as well, means that unlike the Lencos holes cannot be drilled through the bottom to achieve Direct Coupling.

The Sony is servo-controlled, which according to the accepted understanding (i.e. press and industry promoted this view to the point where it was accepted wisdom; same process as led to the hegemony of the Belt-Drive) is inferior to quartz-locking, as servo-control leads to endless hunt-and-seek as it endlessly responds to speed variations caused by stylus force drag, thus seriously affecting overall speed stability. Quartz-locking provides an independent reference (the regular pulsing of the quartz crystal), not responding to speed variations brought on by stylus force drag (interesting that while both idlers and DDs were built to combat stylus force drag, belt-drive was not until much later in its history, or via a very few Japanese manufacturers and Thorens with their massive models, via the use of massive platters), and so was deemed and pronounced the superior system. As with belt-drives, I had accepted this as true as well, though I had accepted the superiority of the belt and so never investigated this further until after I had discovered the Idlers.

After I had already been seduced by the Idlers and started the original Home Despot thread, I investigated the DD system via Technics' SP10 MKII, as the only "threat" to the Idler, the Technics being pretty well THE DD to have (as with the Garrards for the idlers). I built one into a truly massive Giant plinth, and found that despite great neutrality, information-retrieval and bass detail, reach and control, it could not match the Lenco for fluidity, PRaT or musicality, while not being able to beat it in the aforementioned audiophile areas. And this was in the days before Giant plinths and Direct Coupling (which yield HUGELY better results). The Technics also had a characteristic "dry" sound which is reminiscent of digital artefacts. While these experiments were going on, I tripped over as Technics SL-1100, Technics' first DD (in fact, the first DD ever built and marketed I believe), and servo-controlled. It came with a removable armboard as standard, mounted with a Grace 707. Now, by this time I had pretty well dismissed DD as dry and unmusical overall (compared with both Idlers AND Belt-Drives), so imagine my suprise when I plugged it in and found it to be both fluid and musical!! When, eventually, a Sony 2250 motor unit ('table/chassis same as the Garrards designed to be built into a plinth with separate tonearm) came my way, a servo-controlled unit, I jumped on it to test it out, as I had come to the conclusion that quartz-locking was the problem, which was audible to human ears via a sort of sampling ratio (the quartz pulsing), resulting in both dryness and a constriction/reduction of the dynamics.

The Sony 2250 has going for it heavy and superb construction, ESPECIALLY the main bearing which is superior to the Technics. But its platter is lighter than that on the Technics, it has less torque than the Tehnics, and its construction, while excellent, is not as heavy as the Technics. The Technics, in addition to this, has a large and hefty separate power supply/quartz-locking reference. It would seem on the surface of it to be the superior machine, even by idler standards (i.e. more torque). To even the playing field, I plugged the Sony into a Monster power conditioner. I was shocked to hear by just how much the Direct Coupled Sony 2250 outclassed the Technics when I switched the handy-dandy RS-A1/Denon DL-103"E" combo from one to the next, playing the same source material. I had thought that due to the Technics' various advantages, it would outclass the Sony in strict audiophile terms (detail, imaging, etc.) while the Sony would take it for fluidity, PRat and musicality. But switching the tonearm fror one to the next was, first of all, like doubling the volume control on the preamp, dynamics were HUGELY superior to the Technics! In addition to this, bass was deeper on the Sony, detail was VASTLY superior, as was clarity and transient speed. On first audition, using an "a capella" tune, the Technics seemed to be telling the truth. But switching to songs with instruments, the truth of the Sony's superiority became evident. The digital/"neutral" sound of the Technics, as with digital media, was mistaken for truth. But music should be first and foremost musical, and this type of neutrality (flatness/lack of colour) is in fact a severe colouration. Some, however, are seduced by this sort of bogus "truth". Music is NOT cold and analytical, as so many audiophiles seem to believe it should be but, in its natural state, musical and rivetting.

Finally, I mounted the RS-A1/Denon combo on the Giant Direct Coupled Lenco, and the gap between it and the Sony was as significant as the gap between the Sony and the Technics. But, the Sony has PRaT, musicality, fluidity and extreme detail (just not as extreme as the Lenco) and, given a better power filter (a frequency regenerator which does not rely on quartz-locking, if such a beast exists) and a better platter (you can't mess around with platter mass with DDs, as the mass of the platter is carefully calculated into the drive due to the extreme slow revolution of the motor, 33 1/3 RPM at 33 1/3, and 45 RPM at 45). The solution for the Sony is then, the Boston Audio Mat 1, which being made of graphite should not weigh much, but add much-needed solidity to the platter. Who knows how good the Sony would then be? I hope to answer this question eventually. But I will say this: in standard trim but with a power supply/filter/regenrator, I will challenge all Technics SP-10 MKII and EMT DD owners, as I did the Lenco vs belt-drives, and go around crushing these fabled machines, and lay to rest another suspect Dogma :-). I throw down the gauntlet ;-)!! I have every confidence that a Giant Direct Coupled Sony 2250 will outperform an EMT DD. Hopefully chances for these shootouts will materialize.

So what happened with the rise of quartz-locking in the case of the DD? Well, precisely the same process as occured with the rise of the Belt-Drive vs the Idler, a program of misinformation and the acceptance of the judgment of "experts" by the general population, in contradiction to their actual auditory experience. As with the idler which had superior PRaT, gestalt, dynamics and overall musicality to that achievable by belt-drives, the press and industry simply declared all these sonic/musical attributes as subjective and thus illusory, and so removed them as issues. In addition, the rising Belt-Drive Hegemony saw the DD as a threat (to profits as well as belt-drives are MUCH cheaper to manufacture), and came up with the criticism of the servo-control system in order to nip it in the bud. The industry (Technics) responded with the quartz-locking system, which with the appropriate measurement system yielded very impressive measurements indeed, and damn all that subjective stuff. It became the standard, and the opposition of the belt-drivers (fluidity/musicality) vs the DD-ers (analytical/"truth"/control) was born, the Idler for the moment releagted to a simple footnote in history.

One more lesson to be learned: though the Technics has far more torque than the Sony, the Sony STILL beat it by a very significant margin, meaning that torque only takes you so far. Of course, the Tehnics' torque is contantly reined in and so defeated by its own quartz-locking mechanism, and the Sony's ability to be Direct Coupled makes more effective use of what torque the Sony does have (i.e,. Direct Coupling to a high mass goes a LONG way to stabilizing whatever motor system is used). Extrapolating with respect to the Lenco's own Mighty sonic results, we see that the Lenco motor is FAR better than it is generally considered to be, as its fluidity and audiophile performance is still vastly superior to that of even the Sony (so far), while having considerably more torque.

Digesting all these results, the most effective DD should in fact resort to no cuircuitry/correction whatsoever, apart from clean electric power, and rely instead, as with the Idlers/Lenco, on pure mommentum/mass of the platter to even out the motor's imperfections (a delicate balancing act) in order to achieve perfect - i.e. FLUID - speed stability. THIS machine (torque and build of a Technics SP-10 MKII and main bearing of a Sony) might challenge the Mighty Idlers!!

Recently I Direct Coupled a quartz0locked Technics SP-25 (it can be Direct Coupled, but has a lighter platter and less torque and lighter construction) to a high-mass plinth and achieved far more musical results than from the bolted but heavier SP-10 MKII, so soon I will compare the two to see how much Direct Coupling increases overall musicality.

For the moment anyway, the Idler is at the Top of the Analogue Heap, Vive la Idler, Viive la Lenco!! Enjoy your respective projects/experiments all!!

Hi Jean and Happy New Year to you!
Interesting that your DD dabbling mirrored some of my own recently, albeit that mine was an example much lower in the ocean strata – but certainly no bottom feeder to my ears – the Pioneer PL-518 (1977). This semi-auto (auto-return) is servo-controlled (18 pole/24 slot) and comes in at a bit over 20 lbs. – no small part of that heft coming from 2” of a solid particleboard plinth into which there is a high degree of direct coupling (sub-platter, armboard etc.). The sprung suspension is designed into the footing and can easily be changed out for solid footing to a marble + rubber/cork/rubber isolators type of sub-plinth arrangement if desired.
After picking this TT up at our municipal Re-Use center for $10, I was able to free up the linkage very quickly, but could only overcome the nascent EMI hum coming off both motor and neon strobe light by incorporating the Astatic MF-200 flux cartridge that Grant steered me towards.
The Pioneer was part of holiday audio “makeover” for a family member that wanted to “get into vinyl” (not everyone can get a Lenco – especially starting out). A pair of large Advents that I refoamed and competent little Technics receiver rounded out the package. But by far, the unexpected little gem of this roped together ensemble was that Pioneer DD which was quite musical and delivered some thumping bass.
Seems I followed up on your qualified DD recommendation telepathically, and as in so many times before heartily agree with your appraisal and reasoning.
By the way, many thanks for the compliment on my Interstate Lenco build.

All best,
Mario
Jean, What about the Denon DP80 and the earlier DP6000? One can defeat their speed correction mechanism easily and try them both ways. Plus I think they compete with any that you mentioned as regards quality of construction and thoughtful design. (The DP80 has the DP100 type split platter to isolate platter from motor.) But would any of these tables run at anywhere near a stable and correct speed without the correction systems they employ? I dunno but don't think so.
Jean - I have been itching to ask a question regarding tonearms.

As I still sometimes read the old thread (dull afternoons at work) your raves about certain older tonearms remain fresh in my mind.

Now that you have the Dynavector and the RS-A1 to sport your Denon, are you still using the likes of the MAS, 1005II, Mayware, etc.? What about MM in general?

Nervous in high compliance-ville,

Mike
Hi all!! Starting with Mario, you're most welcome, your work is always an inspiration in dedication! A lot of DIYers should have a gander and think about the satisfaction of a project well done. I've discovered that in woodwork patience and care - not professional experience - is the Prime Ingredient. Measure twice and cut once as they say. I absolutely LOVE to hear about budget Giant-Killer systems, especially using vintage components! Though my own sytem is made up entirely of such items (excepting currently my tonearms and cartridges), I STILL have hankering to pull out my AR2ax's and play with them, and my Yamaha 625's, and so forth, and have some fun.

While on the subject of vintage tonearms, hey Mike! No, I haven't abandoned either vintage tonearms or MMs, having been busy lately conquering my area with the Decca: there's now a Decca Revival going on in Ottawa thanks to a combination of the Mighty Giant Direct Coupled Glass-Reinforced Lenco/Graham 2.2 Ceramic combo. Last I heard, the Decca has displaced both an upper end Benz Micro MC AND a Koetsu Platinum Something-or-Other. I've also been experimenting with an incredible and Final-Type match-up: the combination of the Rega RB-250 with the Grado cartridges, including the Woodies. Now I've often been on record speaking for the RB-300 as opposed to the much-hyped RB-250 (OL etc.), but this is in the case of MCs, with which the RB-300 extracts much more refined and "complete" results. But with an MM, ESPECIALLY the Grados, the RB-250 yields truly State of the Art astonishing results, so much so I bought myself a RB-250 for my own Woody. I made the discovery initially when setting up a Lenco for a friend on a budget. He bought an RB-250 to keep costs down, and I talked him into a Grado Platinum as a Final Cartridge. I was frankly stunned by the results, his system now counting amongst the best I've heard anywhere in the world (using old and stunning JSE Infinite Slope speakers, a Superphon Dual Mono Revelation preamp, and a couple of 20-watt ASL tube monoblocks). Now lately, I mounted my RB-250 to the Technics SP-25 in heavy plinth (Direct Coupled) and mounted my Grado 8MX to that, and am again stunned by the results.

And more ahead, as I bought an NOS Audio Technica ATP-12, which is, in terms of build quality/engineering, superior to the AT-1005 MKII. Can't wait to try it out. I am about to mount my Black Widow to my new Reference Lenco (I've improved things some more by more extreme application of certain principles) to show what this baby can REALLY do. One thing about this ultra-low-mass tonearm: a cartridge on this tracks the most severe warps as if they didn't exist. Plus, I've never heard one on one of my Giant babies, let alone my new "Ultra Lenco" (and I've not yet applied these principles to Reinderspeter's top-plate...we're entering realms of music reproduction which border on a violation of the Laws of Physics!!).

Though my Reference tonearm/cartridge combo is now the JMW 10.5/Ortofon Jubilee (though not budget, for the price this combo still ranks as a Giant Killer and stunning value, as they are both "reasonably" priced at roughly $2K each), I was frankly stunned at the results I got from the classic AKG P8ES on the JMW, which may in fact have outperformed the Decca...I'll have to get back to this cartridge and see what more I can extract from it. I HIGHLY recommend the AKG as a State of the Art Contender, no need for caveats in any area. I also clearly remember the stunning results I got from my Transcriptors Vestigal tonearm, likely the lowest-mass tonearm ever made (and WEIRD and so FUN), which extracted SUCH detail and transients from my Grado Woody it matched the best MCs I've heard. Finally, in my Fun Bag, is the Decca International Heavy Metal version I have, which might displace even the JMW 10.5! We'll see.

A note on the highly-underrated (despite a stream of rave reviews) and misunderstood JMW tonearms (especially the 10.5 and above): these tonearms "humanize" otherwise cerebral MCs (which normally cannot match MMs for gestalt, PraT and overall exhuberance/musicality) and so bring them much closer to MMs in overall sonic characteristics. I've heard the Lenco/JMW in many systems, with always the same results: an utter naturalness allied to state of the art detail and imaging, and perfectly even tonal balance, from the lowest lows to the highest highs. I believe it's due to a combination of the unipivot design and very high overall mass, which ups the gestalt of the normally analytical/dissective character of most MCs.

And finally Lew, those sound like fabulous machines, I've heard a lot about the better Denons, but haven't yet managed to get my hands on one. As to speed stability, since there is no such thing as perfection in this world, then it is not so much the overall speed stability which matters as the TYPE of speed instabilities which matter. Take quartz-locking: with a given speed stability measurement (averaged in such a way as to make the figures look very impressive) their speed stability figures outdo many much better designs, as I've discovered. But the quartz-locking is causing a sort of go-brake-go-brake-go-brake which disappears when averaged out over a certain time period/frequency, but to which the human ear is EXTREMELY sensitive. Using the same measurement test, another DD (of course servo-controlled) yields much inferior results, but sounds MUCH more stable in terms of overall gestalt, transients and dynamics (i.e. these are not mitigated as they are with quartz-locking). So perhaps the servo-controlled system at a certain frequency/time sampling is vastly inferior, but perhaps at a smaller sampling frequency the speed stability is vastly superior (i.e. averaged over one thoudsandth of a second to the next one-thousandths of a second the Quartz is superior, but perhaps at the pico-second to the next pico second level the servo is MUCH superior, yielding a more liquid/musical result). With respect to simply removing ALL correction circuitry from existing DDs you're right, the results would likely be disastrous. A DD would have to be designed from the ground up to operate on simple momentum. When removing the platter of my Sony, for example, one can see the motor/spindle of the 'table go, in quarter-turns, revolve-STOP-revolve-STOP. But, mount the platter and this HUGE cogging simply disappears. This demonstrates that the platter mass is calculated into the final result, and a DD designed with no correction whatsoever would also have to be so designed, to work without electronic speed stability tricks, which many audiophiles mistake, it being a matter of wondrous computing technology, as big PLUS, when in fact the correction circuitry is a big bandaid to cover up a great LIABILITY, i.e. the extremely slow revolution of DDs, as is necessarily so (33 1/3 for 33 1/3 and 45 for 45, as opposed to 1800 RPM for Idlers), which magnifies any imperfections hugely (the faster a motor revolves, the more simple momentum "papers" over the speed instabilities).

Anyway, more fun'n games ahead for me and evidently for you all, have fun all!!