Building high-end 'tables cheap at Home Despot II

Here's the thing, jejune. Rick's conclusions may have merit, but we'll never know because both the tonearm and cartridge were not alike in this comparison. I am also willing to believe Jean's claim that some of the shortcomings of the Lenco, if indeed they can be traced to the Lenco given the aforementioned variables, were due to problems with the idler arm. Any noise generator in the playback system, like an excessively vibrating idler arm or a noisy motor, is going to be perceived as a hf roll-off and/or as a loss of spaciousness and transparency. What's lost here is that for an expenditure of less than $2K, one should not expect or require a turntable to better the performance of a $29K competitor. I use and enjoy my Lenco, to the extent that I am not concerned whether or not there is something better out there. Indeed, for the amount of money that some people spend, I hope they ARE getting something better. However, I do not necessarily subscribe to the "you get what you pay for" school when it comes to audio equipment.

Agreed. My Lenco project was not just the TT on the cheap.....believe me I can afford multi $$$$ turntable but chose other wise. Not only Lenco gave me the chance to transport myself into the World of Music but forced me to gain knowlodge and know how on turntable building , basis , setup, materials, constraction etc. It is not always about the money.......is it????? It can not be........right? At least for some of us. I am glad and thankfull, those that influence me and help me build it and restore Lenco......that is what it is all about.....or at least should be.

Cheers and enjoy your records anyway you can....being it a 30K or $200 analog rig. Whatever makes you jump, dance , sing or cry.

Mariusz

Am I the only one who has read the reviews of the big SME tables that almost uniformly say that they are dry and uninvolving?

Rick is obviously a well healed and experienced audiophile and I respect his opinion in the context of his post but I dont see the reason to go off in a huff. He likes what he likes but that doesn't mean that he is correct - audiophile detail vs wooly musicality... How should systems sound? Like you are sitting on the bandstand or in row "m".

Anyhow it must have killed Jean to kowtow in print as much as he did :) Good for character building :)

Mike

Mgreene, I pointed that out, too. In at least one or maybe two reviews of the SME30 that I recall, the reviewer found it to be very neutral, almost to a fault. The fault line lies near to the phrases "dry" and "uninvolving". But lets remember that these adjectives were used in relation to other state of the art tables or to the writers' favorite table, usually high end, too. And they were used to describe relative qualities, not absolutes. So, I think there are elements of LP reproduction that you and I would like better about the Lenco as compared to the SME, but overall it is certainly not surprising that the SME30 would be superior. As Jean himself has noted, we are only beginning to see the potential of idler drive fully realized. I haven't heard Mosin's latest creation, but I will wager that it would more than challenge the SME30. OTOH, it may cost as much.

Hi all, just to correct certain things, the high frequencies were, as Rick noted, severely rolled-off. I don't believe this was due to the idler mechanism (which flipped and flopped like a drunken sailor as the mechanism simply didn't fit this particular Lenco, coming from another [I had assumed these were all drop-in replacements and until the Shootout, considering how good it was anyway, I never noticed]), but instead more a cable issue. The Clearaudio's (my favourite cartridge of all time, and according to Rick I should never even consider selling it, so an unexpected benefit of this Shootout as well) accompanying graph shows it drops off at 14K, but since most men over 30 have roll-offs at about 13K, this shouldn't make much of a difference. The highs did improve, it seemed to both of us, when I swapped to the JMW, but the cable I made for the JMW was a BIG improvement over the cable I had to concoct for the SME, as well, being direct from the RCAs at one end to the Neutriks at the other. And perhaps switching to Mogamis, as I was considering, or something other than "warm-sounding" Cardas cable, would have made even more of a difference.

Anyway, I think this high-frequency roll-off did much too much to colour the outcome, had they been there, then, in terms of neutrality, the contest would have been much closer. But, the Lenco produced, as-was, only the lowest bass to the lower highs, and so sounded much "warmer" than it should have. So let's not make too much of this warmth and musicality issue (at least for now): in terms of absolute information-retrieval, i.e. raw detail, the two 'tables were actually very close within the frequency range the Lenco did reproduce; and in terms of "ordinary" overall dynamics (I mean apart from the "jumping out" percusssion/palpability factor of the Lenco) the two were actually quite close again. It wasn't a night-and-day slaughter of the SME by the Lenco in this respect, more a matter of degree (significant degree, but still degree). I was frankly surprised by how dynamic and exciting the SME really was. I was also frankly surprised by how deep and powerful the bass was. From the lowest bass through the midrange through to the lower high frequencies, the two 'tables were, in overall audiophile terms (detail, imaging, placement, dynamics, etc.), quite close. So, yes, the Lenco IS more involving, more exciting, and so forth, but don't assume it is far behind the SME 30 in terms of information-extraction (we had to switch back and forth, back and forth, in order to hear what each 'table was picking up and how they presented it, in order to hear what each was doing and judge which was correct, they were so close), this was mostly due to the missing high frequencies which, being simply not present on the Lenco, meant the SME simply picked up some detail, and fleshed-out/brought forward other detail, up here which the Lenco did not. Who knows what the JMW/Concerto would have done, and with better cable?

On the other hand, the SME 30 was powerful, dynamic, with deep controlled bass, in these areas quite close to the Lenco (and in the matter of bass, at least with the SME IV/Concerto combo, its equal, superiority was recording-dependent according to my ears), and not what I was expecting from the reviews I read and the auditioning I did of a SME 20. The Lenco furthered these dynamics somewhat, and added superior timing to my ears. The Concerto is considered extremely musical according to the reviews, and according to my ears is simply the best I have ever heard in this respect, and extraordinary in terms of detail, dynamics, and all the rest. I LOVE it. Perhaps the Concerto was giving the Lenco a further advantage in terms of musicality as well. Maybe switching the Concerto to the SME would have brought the SME some needed PRaT and gestalt, and switching the Benz LP to the Lenco would have brought the Lenco further neutrality, thus bringing the two 'tables closer together in terms of musicality - and neutrality - as well.

Anyway, both these 'tables were superb, the experience was amazing, and I thank Rick again for his time and hospitality. For those who are price-conscious, I suggest you don't get too upset the Lenco is SO cheap, the REAL reason idlers stopped being manufactured is that they were simply too expensive to manufacture (they switched to belt-drive because this was cheap and easy to manufacture). The companies - like Lenco - which produced these at the time were HUGE (LP was king and EVERYONE had an LP spinner), with huge R & D resources, and all was manufactured in-house. How much would it cost to design and produce a Lenco from scratch today? So yes, the Lenco can be picked up for $200 today, but that's used, on eBay, today, and even this price has more to do with perception (so-so) than reality (incredible).

Anyway, have fun all, back to my Concerto!!