Vinylphiles...used/new TT/Cart combo under $700?

Second the HW-19... a friend has it with the Audioquest arm and it's a giant-killer. Not the best-looking table in the world, which may be why it's underrated.

The Thorens TD-160/TD-145 (full manual/autolift at end of side) and their progeny are excellent with the standard TP-16 arm, and should still be around for about $200. They may well need work, at the very least a tuneup, but even for an extra $200-250 you're getting a table that will blow away any Rega or Music Hall or Pro-Ject... ANY one of them.

Better would be a Thorens TD-125 Mk II, and they often come with vintage arms that are worth the price of the table... SME 3009, 3012, or if you're lucky an Ortofon arm. Again, they will need a tuneup from someone experienced at the very least.

Another possibility is an SL-1200. Fit with an Ortofon Concorde plug-in cartridge and you're out maybe $550 with all new gear. I haven't found the much-vaunted damping trough to make a whole hell of a lot of difference... we have one running a Dyna 10x5 at the office... but this is a great table either way.

Patrick

Of the 'tables listed the Lenco is by FAR the best, but requires some sense of adventure and elbow-grease to maximize. Here's what the owner of a near-TNT'd VPI HW-19 with a SME V/Koetsu Rosewood Signature had to say about a maximized Lenco (which can be bought in stock/used form for roughly $200-$300 on eBay): "Here's the bottom line of my initial impression. This turntable - the Black Beauty - with a $150 cartridge is blowing away my former rig that had a $3500 cartridge mounted on a VPI HW-19 MkIV tricked out as close as you can get to the TNT level. I'll need to try other arms and cartridges to get a fuller sense of what this table can do, but there's no doubt that it's huge jump beyond the VPI."

If you're not into DIY - and you need to be a least a little bit DIY to restore any vintage turntable, to the extent of fitting a new belt and cleaning and re-lubing the bearings - then the choices do indeed become bewildering. The best-value deck in the Rega arsenal is the P3, the Technics '1200 is indeed superb value for money, and Audio Technica now have a DD out which matches the Technics build-quality-wise at a lower price, see review here: AT-PL120.

If some restoration is in you but not much, then the Thorenses are killer, the TD-160 especially being very musical and with powerful bass. The TD-125 is more detailed and neutral, and versatile due to its removable armboard. Then there are the AR turntables, and the Aristons...have fun!

You all have highlighted the tables I have discoverd through some research and private tutoring from some kind Audiogon members.

My thinking is this. I don't have a problem with cleaning, lubing and replacing the belt on a table. I'm not likely to build a new plinth for a Lenco. From what I've read, the stock Lenco plinth is the biggest problem with the table, and therefore perhaps a Lenco with the stock plinth is not best suited for my purposes. If I have misinterpreted this, then please explain.

The Thorens TD-147, TD-160 or TD-125 are on my radar. Like most tables, these have their fans and their detractors.

Likewise AR, Denon DP-72L or DP-62L, and Garrard 701 or 1229.

I am beginning to recognize that the most highly regarded tables have substantial plinths...as indicated by the Lenco project tables and the VPI and Well Tempered tables mentioned earlier in this thread.

The Technics SL-1200...especially the KAB modified versions...seem to be the best new production table for my purposes. However, equipped the way I'd like it sends the price to nearly $1100.

Do the classic Thorenses really have detractors? I'm not familiar with the 147, but I've rarely, if ever, seen anyone diss the 145, the 160 or the 125.

Some like turntables with minimal plinths, such as the Regas. Personally I'm not a fan of the Rega sound, but that may or may not be due to the minimal plinth.

So far as getting a fully tricked-out 1200... you can always start stock, and add upgrades.

There's no doubt that Johnnantais is correct that an idler wheel drive would be killer, and from all reports the Lenco is particularly amazing value. I use a Garrard 301 which I picked up for a few hundred on eBay and had a carpenter friend rustle up a skeletal plinth from Baltic birch ply for about $160... it now has a more substantial plinth from a guy in Ireland name Neil Hollow (click System below to see it), and this TT blew away my multi-grand, 3-arm Acoustic Solid One (a Scheu-Eurolab-type table from Germany, which I promptly sold).

Patrick

The highest priority 1200 mod is the tonearm rewire. It's better done before shipping the unit, the same goes for the threaded spindle (I'm still deciding on that one). If you want 78 RPM, that would be next. The outboard power supply follows, then the fluid damper and last the strobe disabler (have it too, but not installed yet).

Patrick, I'm impressed by your system--and very few systems actually impress me. Anyone with plenty money can buy stuff. Carefully assembling a system and reaching particular goals is a whole different arena. Like yours, my interconnects use naturally insulated silver, too. Now, you're missing a lot of good music available in digital formats. I solved the issue when I switched to a belt driven transport, which Dan Wright later modded. It's a mean salsa and merengue playing machine...a machine gun with a silencer!

Deano sold me a Densen air suspension platform and that's what decouples the Creature. It's really effective at dealing with vertical & lateral vibrations.

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