Can you imagine a world without vinyl?

Dear Richard: +++++ " Can you imagine a world without vinyl? " +++++

Yes, I can imagine what I can't imagine is a world without MUSIC ( somebody posted about ).

50K records in 45 years?, that's mean that for 45 years you buy at least 3 records each single day over those 45 years!!!!!!!. You are a extremely music/record collector. Congratulations!!!!!! I own only 6K but normally I'm around 200-300 ( maybe less ) to hearing.

Now, it is obvious ( like other of you posted ) that we need a better medium/way of music home reproduction for the future recordings. I agree that for what are already recorded the LP is the best medium/way till today and I think that the LP reproduction audio items ( that we know/using ) most be improved ( because it can ), we are losting yet " music " from/in our audio systems, there is ( fortunately ) a " road " to improvements in the way of sound reproduction ( like somebody posted ) with better future designs ( I hope that. ): cartridges/tonearms/TT's/Phonolinepreamps/amplifiers/speakers/etc/etc.

Let me tell you these: over the last 30 years I don't know any single tonearm design ( and there are several very good today designs out there ) that could beat " vintage " tonearms designs like Micro Seiki MAX 282, Technics EPA 100MK2, Audiocraft AC3300, Lustre GST 801, SAEC, SME, etc, etc. In the same way we have very good cartridges new designs, but a real whole improvement over some " vintage " cartridges?, I can tell you, too, that ( unfortunately ) these new designs are not whole better than the older ( some cartridge manufacturers have better cartridges today but are better because their old designs were not good enough. ): I can't think/know any single today cartridge that could beat ( whole ) the Fidelity Researh MC702 or the Technics U205CMK4 ( MM ) or the Goldbug Brier or the Audio Technica ATML 180OCC or Micro Acoustics MA630 or Fulton HP or many others.
In the same way are the TT's, example: Micro Seiki, not only the top of the line SZ-1TVS+SZ-1M but the SX or RX series: IMHO I don't know any today TT ( and I don't hear all yet ) that really beats the Micro Seiki stuff.

Today, we all are paying " dream money " for tonearms/cartridges and TT's that give us/return a very small real " satisfaction " for what we invest on it and certainly almost all can't give us/return a real whole improvement over the very old " vintage " gear. Please, if you don't believe in what I'm saying: you can buy ( today ) on e-bay a MM cartridge ( new. ) like the Empire EDR.9 for less than HUNDRED DOLLARS ( they are on special!!: two cartridges for 135.00 dollars !!!!!) give 50 hours of play and then make a serious " hearing " from it, you can't believe how a MM cartridge for that " absurd " price could perform that nice!!!!! and at almost the very same level of any of those 3-5K new cartridge designs.

We have to ask/push/beg to the " new " TT/cartridge/tonearm very good designers to improve ( a real/big improvement ) their today designs. I think that we have to let to applaud with so paramount enthusiasm those every day newcomers designs till they be a real/whole quality sound reproduction improvement design, not only different but whole better.

In less proportion, we have to ask/push/beg to all the very good electronics and speaker designers. Why do you think that José and I work hard for many years to design/build our Essential 3150 phonolinepreamp? and why do you think that we are on the amplifier and tonearm design?: because we really think that we need a serious improvement in the quality sound reproduction of what we have and of what it is out there, we are trying it and we hope we could achieve that in the near future.

If we take a look in the last years the prices on the audio items go really fast ( higher ) against the quality improvements: the audio item price wins the " race " ( right now ), it is fair that we ( all customers ) ask for better audio item quality performance.

Last but don't less important is that the whole recording process could " suffer/change " for the better with new recording approaches: miking/mastering/edition/recording machines/cables/consoles/mixers/recording enginnering/producers/etc/etc. This subject is critical because is the SOURCE. I think that the recording manufacturers can do it but they are not interested on it, unfortunately.

Waiting for a better future!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Zaiks:

Let's just not get carried away from reality by all the rhetoric. No matter how much you want to expend on their playback, and no matter how much we might enjoy or fetishize them, records cannot faithfully transmit the sound of a mastertape. Digital has that possibility, as well as more relative practical advantages than you can shake a tonearm at.

I usually agree with you but you are 100% wrong, except for your comment that digital has made headway. I've posted that same response dozens of times here at Audiogon over the years.

The fact remains that LP provides better music.

If you disagree it's because you have not pushed both formats to the limit. If you wish to argue on the basis of money, digital wins.

If you wish to argue on the basis of absolute quality, cost no object, then LP wins. I find it interesting that those that argue against LP are always the ones that want to economize. Just speak the truth, you are unwilling to go to that much effort for the difference. That argument I will accept.

I still say there can be a lot of overlap in quality between analog- and digital-sourced systems today. This is why this thread will go on forever, like all the other vinyl vs. CD threads with 100s of posts.

Arthur

Albert,

"If you wish to argue on the basis of absolute quality, cost no object, then LP wins"

Well said. There is a cross-over point where spending less buys better music with digital, and more, better music with analog, at least for me. I can't find great quality used LPs. Occasional new ones, but even those are rare. The pops and clicks drive me crazy! I wonder about the dolby and dbx tape systems I used to have and how they might compare now. If I could go from master tape to home machine tape, would it be better, especially using today's technology? Hmmmm.....

Well said. There is a cross-over point where spending less buys better music with digital, and more, better music with analog, at least for me.

I agree. I just don't understand why those of us that bust our ass to make analog work get hammered by the digital guys. I have owned top line CD players ever since they were introduced, I am a MUSIC guy.

I burns me up to push and work and save and make my system the VERY best it can be, no matter what it takes. I pride myself in that, the same drive that's won me tens of dozens of awards in my career of photography.

When I raced cars I held the track record. I did not get it by bullshitting, it took a lot of money and staying up the whole night before to make sure everything was 100%. Otherwise you saw the other guys tail lights.

So what's different about today? Everyone want's to have the "best" but only provided it's easy, cheap or convenient.